NAR 2007 Mod open discussion.

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 13 Dec 2006, 02:32

SteveB, if you want to test Afboro mod, get it at rfcentral, as rf1gp mod. If you want to put engine of Afboro in 1.06, then just install Afboro and try is mod, you will have the same result without mixing or getting MM after the merge.

Here the link : http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... nge%202006

As for taking limpy car and Afboro engine, then your creating a kind of new mod, that will confuse public and get MM eatch time. Both Afboro and Limpy mod are perfect for league, all same level of engine.

afborro · Post by **afborro** » 13 Dec 2006, 02:34

Hi,

Hadn't visited this forum in a while, but sort of got curious because of my discussion with Flow via mail and read through this thread. As for a mod I would provide some help if you needed to tune physics if you needed it. Flow can mail me if you got any questions and I'll keep an eye out on this thread.

You are welcome to use rF1GP or whatever you want to use of course.

As for the last comments regarding using the rF1Gp engine I don't think it is the way to go, why, simply becuase the engine and aero are connected to give the right kind of performance.

I would imagine if you put the rF1GP engine into 1.06 the laps will come out too slow ( I may be wrong) but if you already need an overpowered engine as is the case in 1.06 to get the correct laptimes than that clearly implies there is not enough grip, be it through tire physics or earodynamics or a combination of factors. These things need to be tested in coordination with each other IMHO. As for the rF1GP physics they are not in any way derived with anything that was done for f1c 1.06. I did rF1Gp completely independently, there are some things I would like to change myself and agree with Flow comments.

The stall thing is easily fixed. I did that intentionally, it is simply part of the damage model.

Remember that developing physics by itself can take along time and as I made the mod by myself and a pianter there is only so much I could achieve in the time I spent on it. What I can say about the rF1Gp physics is that the laptimes are close to reality in race trim. I tested a few tracks and for instance 1:21 - 1:23 are possible at Monza (no aids) with the v8 unit reachung top speeds as were seen in the season about 210 MPH. Other tracks are very close provided they are accurate in layout. I wouldn't recommend using many of the ISI tracks judging laptimes as they are simply inaccurate layout wise, in many cases I used GP4 converts are more or less as close as I could expect.

Any questions just ask

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 13 Dec 2006, 02:39

Sorry Afboro, we post at same time, Afboro is refering to SteveB comment right before me.

SteveB · Post by **SteveB** » 13 Dec 2006, 03:02

I agree with Afborro, switching the engine from his mod to the 06 mod wouldn't be a good idea seeing that it was tested and tweaked with BMW physics.

I would LOVE to help Afborro tune up this engine for us so we can start doing some proper testing and not have to worry about this issue anymore.

afborro · Post by **afborro** » 13 Dec 2006, 03:03

No worries, Well I guess it is up to chaps (and girls for that matter

) to decide what mod you use. It is very simply to cement in the physics. The engine in 1.06 can be easily fixed, not a problem but to this properly it would have to be some logical aproach to it where tweaks are made, you test a few nights. tweak test .... etc etc.

One thing I would like to point out v8s really do take to get used to. For instance my initial repsonse was driving v8 were no fun after being so used to f1 challenge and then v10s in rfactor. Initally having driven CTDP for quite a while my lap times with rF1GP (I drive both mods no aids) I was much quicker with CTDP initally, but after a week or so of driving all of a sudden the laptimes started tumbling down.

While not as much throttle control is needed you need to be really precise, the corner speeds and high grip levels result in that you have to take them right, be very precise all of the time, or it will cost you dearly in laptime, real f1 drivers said this exact thing about v8 when they started switching to them. so they are challenging in a different way compared to the v10 IMHO.

To give you an idea of how grippy they are get a copy of f1 racing magazine (the last issue) and read an interview there that has a lot of interesting info. I can upload if you like Alonso's pole Silverstone lap of the 06 Season ( I think you can find at youtube in fact) , turn 1 at this track (forget what it called) is taken flat out, no lift and you don't even hear the TC kicking in. in short, it takes a bit of relearning and also some things in setup are very critically different, like gears in a v8 to get the max power ouput from the engine in the right way.

SteveB · Post by **SteveB** » 13 Dec 2006, 03:06

DAM that sounds AWESOME!!!!

IMHO we need to get this engine right.

noob1234 · Post by **noob1234** » 13 Dec 2006, 03:52

I love it!
It has the BMW hdv slightly tweaked to be more stable over bumps + engine update.
Just the way to go IMO.

Racer · Post by **Racer** » 13 Dec 2006, 09:27

yooo

well this sound much better, i can understandt that this will be best tu get the ingine wright, what i wanted tu start doing something, cause we drive the MOD evryday and getting more frustration, so thats wy i started tu mess around with the engine, and i must say afborro is wright cause the laptimes changed, but the care behave more stady,
NOW IS THE BIG QUESTION WHEN WE GONNA START DOING SOMETHING,

lol
soo Afborro if u can help us with that engine please m8, lets get into it,
am available almost evryday tu du sometesting, afcourse am not the fastest, soo the fast guys must be there tu

cyaaa

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 13 Dec 2006, 16:06

Ok, im not shure now, some say its great, but dont say if its about F1Champion or if its about rf1gp... please precise the mod you complaining or the mod you have more fun with it.

Afboro?, is all your car shape the same? i tought at 1st view, but im not shure. Cause if some may like your mod, they need to notice the shape of car. I know that alot said that they dont care, they just want to race a good multiplayer mod, and more realistic on the physic. But im shure that one day, some will say that the car are not like reality.

If possible, can we have the template to paint the car as real F1 team? Just in case your mod i choosen at end.

Klaaz?, is it possible to have a rf1gp for testing? I think your full wiht your server. We can also ask or Bilbo? to host a public rf1gp, so all member can test both of mod. Its still too soon to choose a mod in my opinion. But i think we put the finger on 2 possible mod up to now.

- F1Champion 1.06 by limpy, V8 mixt with V10 physic
- rf1gp by afboro, V8 physic

klaaz · Post by **klaaz** » 13 Dec 2006, 16:39

i would rather wait for limpy to get back online so we can tweak the engine a bit more so everybody likes it. just before i started practizing for the ROC we allready had a engine.ini that wasnt so powerfull in the low revs but i cant find it anymore since i replaced my system....

Racer · Post by **Racer** » 13 Dec 2006, 16:46

i now am realy 1 that go for the mod from limpy if it is for the looks, wanna give my eyes something nice, but we need the Engine tu be fix,
either Limpy mod with a good Engine, or Afborro Mod with a good look for the cars,

i see a fusion coming,

LimpBorro racing

but first testing Afborro MOD wil be a good thing

cyaa

Racer · Post by **Racer** » 13 Dec 2006, 16:48

aaahmm klaaz i got that Engine, am gonna look for it later, am working now,
not shure wy, but must be on work, soo all day on the pc loooool

afborro · Post by **afborro** » 13 Dec 2006, 18:28

Personally I am of the opinion that the rF1Gp physics are more to the truth, but Limpy may well say or think otherwise, dunno. If you want to drive the rF1Gp physics for a bit and see what you think and let me know what you would like to be different for instance that could be a good start and it could be build on. When you make a judgement however try to be a objective as possible, forget you ever drove a v10, try to erase f1c 1.05 physics from your brain (although it was great, I liked it a lot but not 1.06).

As they say

, let the car come to you and don't straight away try to finetune a setup based on how you want it to feel based on what you were used to, respect the car first

, give it a good few laps and start playing with setup. the base setup in rF1 is more tuned for the AI so play with the power, coast and preload settings and weight dist. as it really make a difference on corner exit and whether the car feels stable or not ( I gues the same applied to 1.06 physics from the sounds of the problems you were describing to me.

I did about 60 laps at EMG_Hungary today, started out first few laps in about 1:23 and ended up with a 1:20.2 1:19 was just to follow, then I had a powercut lol so have not resumed, at first the car felt strange but as the laps progressed it started feeling better and better, the real fastest lap this year was something in the 1:19s so pretty darn close

some of your quick chaps here would probably go a couple of secs quicker.

whether you prefer f1c or rf1 is up to you in the end of the day, here is how I see both mods where they are better and worse IMHO

f1c has the real Teams, skins etc and most shapes from the 06 season. If that is something to important to you rF1 does not offer that, although f1 skins dow work on it from the 2006 minimod. but in the end it only has two shapes (that are fis skin compatible).

rF1 does have a few advantages however in that it has better FPS and performance, on my system at least and would imagine on most systems as it is much lower in polycount, that may also be important. Also IMHO nicer cockpits but I would say that

as I made that from scratch.

I am not particularly interested in merging the mod but in a way that is kind of irrelevant. basically you pick a mod and put the physics you want. If you want to use rF1GP with alternative physics no problem, or f1c in the end it is only about 4 files to put in.

Although I plan to keep the physics as is for now for the public release but for laegues can do what they want. I am kind busy these next few days doing a patch so no time right now to get involved in test session not this week at least.

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 13 Dec 2006, 19:44

Im also against a mixt of 2 mod. We have to choose 1, and tweek if needed, IF needed, then use it. But i think that before tweeking anything, we may need to make at least more than few hundred laps and setup tweeking to start to feel the car. Then we will be able to ask some physic change. I cant say in withc way up to now the physic can be changed, i only did 2 nights on it. Once il have done almost a thousand laps, il maybe be in position to ask for some physic change or keep it as is.

That is my personal opinion.

Ruben Miranda · Post by **Ruben Miranda** » 13 Dec 2006, 20:13

Hello
From what I am reading.
I aggree that one mod needs to be picked and then adjusted or tweeked to what we like or excpect from the phisics.

At least for me jumping from one mod to another is not working.
They are all diffrent and there are things that are good and bad about all of them.
And since the car modles are diffrent you can not really take the phisics from one to the other and get it right.
The mod itself needs to be adjusted and this can take time.
How long I have no real clue except from past mods RH CTDP and others this can really hold up the release.

For me and from what others are saying or thinking it looks like we are at the point of choseing F1C 1.06 from Limpy or RF1GP from Afborro.

I would suggest letting everyone know to test these mods with a time limit say a week and then put up a poll and lets pic one then we can get in to the mod and try to get it the way we feel it would work for everyone.

Just my hummble opinuion.

We realy only have 3 months and that will go very fast.

Hitman

Racer · Post by **Racer** » 13 Dec 2006, 20:54

yoo

i have the latest Engine from limpy, thats the 1 i get from Klaaz, and i did a test again with it, soo if u guys wanted u can get it from Klaaz, or he can put it in PRIVETE, so that only NA and Euro can test it, that way we can not get mismatch with publik server,

cyaa

noob1234 · Post by **noob1234** » 13 Dec 2006, 21:14

Ok, im not shure now, some say its great, but dont say if its about F1Champion or if its about rf1gp... please precise the mod you complaining or the mod you have more fun with it.

Sorry Flow, I should have made that clear.

I thought that the physics in the mod from afboro were much better.
The car did not suffer from "the fear of the curb / bump" syndrome found in f1c.
Also, I noticed the tire temps seemed to remain at sainer levels and it was possible to drive with higher - closer to normal - tire pressures.

Looking at the onboard pole lap from Alonzo 2006 I can easily be faster in the 1.06 car but there is no way in hell that I can touch the curbs or ride the bumps the way he does.

The car from afboro behaves pretty much like the renault in the video. And laptimes are spot on (not that this timing issue really matters to me).

afborro · Post by **afborro** » 13 Dec 2006, 22:08

There is an update coming for rF1GP in the next few days with some better skins and new teams, some of the skins were not that good. Thanks for that comment Noob.

I agree with Flow though that making extensive changes requires loads of testing and many laps before you are even consistent enough, hence my appraoch with rF1GP. i didn't push in too many changes so it basically based around the bmwf1 and what I did change is easily justfied without changing the general charateristics of the car too much so I believe it to be pretty close to the mark for modern f1. Hell, if ISI don't know who knows lol, they made the bmwf1 based on real perforance data from the sauber Team (one would assume).

I am not going to bias you as I made the mod so of course you choose what you want

don't let other choices prevent you from thinking it is hard becuase it only takes a few minutes to put any of these physics in any mod, for instance limpy's mod 1.06, rf1gp physics, CTDP, some other physics, just a matter of copying a few files and may be a saparate rFm if desired .

Coffeemachine · Post by **Coffeemachine** » 13 Dec 2006, 23:05

my feeling is, having tested only 1.06 (and i wont be able to test more until mid januari since thats when ill be coming home here again and i cba to take the wheel with me for the trip home), that the nervouseness of the car is really a big problem. the physics that is, both the engine and the curb thing. I personally want to drive as realistic lines as possible, and 1.06 doesnt allow me to do that. Also the cockpit in 1.06 was a big issue for me, didnt like it at all, but the rf1gp cockpit looks really nice. The shame with rf1gp for me is the looks of the car (sorry affboro

), i really like the "real" skins of 1.06 better... to get that extra piece of realism. But in the end, after some reading here, i would go with the affboro mod - despite not having tried it!
the optimal for me though would be rf1gp with 1.06 skins.

oh and flow, btw, if we end up using 1.06 with physics tweak, cant we just release that as something like "NAR physics uptade for xxx" or so... then we will avoid the confusion your afraid about. We'll just be saying "We use 1.06 with NAR uptade" ...done! The same ofc. goes for the other way around, rf1gp with 1.06 textures (still affboro cockpit, this would have my vote) - if that is ok with the ppl that made it.

But, to be first with this

, HAPPY HOLYDAYS TO ALL OF YOU IN NAR AND CYA ON TRACK MID JANUARI AGAIN.

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 14 Dec 2006, 02:00

Well the better thing is that we use one of the mod as is if possible. Its also possible to use a rf1gp or a F1Champion + NAR physic version. In 2007, the website will be clear on what mod we will use, and downloadable from the website, it is under construction now. The replay watching just didnt let me any spare time to complete the web site. Bilbo and me are working on it since few days, comming up soon.

The best thing is get the both mod. spend few houndred of laps on a specific track. Then try the other mod, same track, and do the same amount of setup tweeking. Then i think that all can be in a position to make a reflected decision based on what we experimented in test session.

This is winter test for NAR, spare that time wisely

No Aids Racing

NAR 2007 Mod open discussion.

Yes