Euro Valencia GP 2010

[Jools]

My race was very short

Issue I feel may be raised about the restart. I must say I didn't expect a restart. But then Neo asked if people wanted to restart and cars seemed to be quitting. Mark put up a vote to restart and I voted yes.

I didn't realise that an admin voting makes the vote default to whatever they vote. That's stupid really. Admin already has commands if they really want to force a decision.

Chat log below

<Chat et="90.5">Mark Aalberts: restart ?</Chat>
<Chat et="119.4">Neo: all for restart????</Chat>
<Chat et="123.5">Coffeemachine: y</Chat>
<Chat et="124.7">Jools: *nods*</Chat>
<Chat et="129.2">(NAR)MrG: </Chat>
<Chat et="151.8">
Mark Aalberts: sry my bad, i dunno what that was, got out of slipstream and rear end overtakes me lol
</Chat>
<Chat et="176.2">Murat Ozsarac: ok 4 me</Chat>
"restart weekend" proposed by Mark Aalberts: 7 votes needed to pass
<Chat et="183.1">NatxoCC: no</Chat>
<Vote et="183.1">Jools: /vote yes</Vote>
Jools (ADMIN) voted YES to restart weekend: vote PASSED

[Racer]

well first off all i now that i aint gonna finish the Race because of conection problems and i did not practice, still dont like that Track,
about Restart, i notice that u make a mistake, so thats it for this race,
i would like u to get rid off the voting when we gonna be Racing, so that only Admin can make a vote.
i asked if all want to restart cause only than i would do that, normaly it never hapend, and Sadly Mark himself was gone before the restart take place,

But its a lesson for us to learn for next Races,

[dutch power]

Im sorry for messing up the start, you have to check the replay to see what happens becuase i still dont get it what happend there lol. When you do 200kmh trough a easy bend you dont expect to loose the rear end, when i got out of the slipstream from Kaffe my rear end just steps out and im gone couldnt do anything it and this just confirms to me what i alwasy thought about this mod. At time it reacts weird lol infact im having no fun with these cars at all never realy had. I wasn't realy in the mood to drive today, and mayby i should just have skipped this race, when you feel like that its better not to race because it alwasy seem that bad things will happen then.

Anyway again sorry for causing this mess, when that happend and i checked replay i saw many cars suffering from this incident and for my feeling a restart was in place. However when admin is racing to its always hard for him to judge on the situation whether it is justified or not. Anyway next time i shall keep shut shouldnt have asked about it. Sorry for that to.

And i left because i felt bad, not just for asking for a restart wich im normaly never do i think this is the first time i actualy asked for it. It was also not for myself but what i saw on replay many suffering from the incident. Anyway i guess i was wrong and when some got angry i wasnt realy keen on racing at all, so left it up to you guys. Again sorry.

[Bilbo]

I didn't realise that an admin voting makes the vote default to whatever they vote. That's stupid really.

You may want to adjust "Admin Functionality" in "multiplayer.ini". Or just keep your vote for last...

You might find the current setting "stupid" until someone calls a kick/ban on you (or anyone not really deserving it) as a joke just before the race and enough people agree to it (hopefully as an unthinking part of the joke).

[Coffeemachine]

i was in the lead but i tend to be positive about restarts, usually when its called someone innocent has gotten his race destroyed

anyway, i still managed to get the lead after stressing craig some in the first corners and, thanks to the track, was able to keep it quite easily while i held him up. then i got lost in the football game and did a small error, nudged a wall and got some steering issues - decided to pit, came out, had some reeeally nice fights with murat g25 and natxocc. Got a long stint in the end and was just cruising when i thought i felt some brake fade.... and it got worse until they finally let go around 12 ish laps before the end. so there we go, two brake failures in two races...and this time i had the radiator set to 5 (!) really thought that would be safe. monza is gonna be dangerous!

EDIT 25 23 wings just so you NA guys know - if you run something similar add more brake duct!

[natxocc]

Sorry, but I can't understand what happen today.

Last year I lost 7 races because some cars detroyed mine in firsts laps and I never spoke in race, I never vote to restart, and always understand that the rules are very clear, for good and for bad.

I don't understant why people talks, less that people vote restarts, and less that someone vote yes. I know that it was a mistake that the admin have aproved directly, but nobody needs to talk not votting restarting.

I hope this situation not will repeat again without changging the rules because is very dissapointing and unfair for the legal people that accept the rules as they are.
Do you want than in the next races, if I have problems ask for restart and talk in race?

Well, I am sorry for my expression in race (Is very infair for me compared in past). Today, in real Formula 1 I didn't like what happens with safety car and I begin to think Formula1 is buyed for some people...For this reason today I was dissapointed and ungry.

Sorry for my exclamation.

[Craig Cookson]

My race went quite smoothly - I did lose a place at turn one on both race starts, but that seems to happen all the time to me. I managed to get back in front of Coffee after a few laps and from that point on I started working to build up a decent lead. After my second pit stop I backed off quite a bit as I was worried about the brakes failing like they did in Canada.

Rear tyres were very bad on this track for me - they were overheating after 4 or 5 laps and this made the car very difficult to drive, with lots of oversteer on low speed corner entry and exit and a general lack of traction. It also made lap times very inconsistent.

I'm pleased with the win but to be honest I'm glad to see the back of this circuit - I don't like it at all.

I'd like to congratulate NatxoCC on an excellent second place and also Mr G for getting on the podium.

[Murat Ozsarac]

I'm sorry for Mark about the restart issue happened today. It's never easy to concentrate a new race after a restart. Could not get my rhythm at all through 1st stint long of the race and had to do my best defending against Coffee, G, Natxo, kalimero who were all bit quicker than me (it was nothing but a nightmare ). Managed to keep my 3rd position until brakes were gone 5 laps to go. Still happy with the 4th place but a bit disappointed with my poor turtle driving

[Bilbo]

The server replay and results files can be downloaded here:

Qual results: http://nar.kicks-ass.org:8086/narresult ... a_Qual.xml
Race results: http://nar.kicks-ass.org:8086/narresult ... a_Race.xml
Replays: http://nar.kicks-ass.org:8086/narresult ... lencia.zip (15.4MB, contains race and qual. replays)
League stats: Click here for the NAR stats
Web-stats: Click here for stats!

[TheBear]

Unfortunately the rules about restarts are a bit unclear. "There should be NO race restarts unless there are server problems or very exceptional circumstances." What is considered "very exceptional circumstances"? In my opinion this should be clarified, e.g. "If over 75% of the starters are out before the end of lap 1".

What we really need to do is take it very easy on lap 1 because to knock out other cars at the start is very disrespectful to all the hard work they have put in to practice for the race. BUT the problem is that Mark is right about this mod, it behaves very strangely when you are in the dirty air of another car, so this accident wasn't his fault. I span out of Sepang on the second corner in the same way. I had gone through the corner hundreds of times in practice but in the race I just span out in the dirty air in a very strange way. It is very easy to spin while running closely behind another car, it has happened to me and I have seen it several times with cars coming up behind me. I thought it was just my poor driving but what Mark is saying is exactly what I have experienced.

[Jools]

The only reason I even had the idea that there may be a restart was because Admin were discussing it.

It's a difficult question. On the one hand you have those being taken out having done 100s of laps practice, on the other you have those getting away cleanly and in a good position.

Perhaps there should be restarts until a clean turn 1 and 2 have been achieved. If people try to make up for bad starts by deliberately crashing to cause a restart punish them.

Perhaps an Admin who acts as a race director should spectate and if there is a pileup they should then make a decision to restart or not. (In real F1 it's possible to red flag a race start and in the old days you then had drivers running for the spare cars)

I know not to take part in any votes now if I have my admin suit on.

Regarding the dirty air behaviour of this mod. I can't say I've noticed it because I can spin quite happily on my own. From what I know Mark you run quite low downforce so perhaps that is magnifying some wierd behaviour that the mod is presenting.

Anyone know which mod will be a candidate for 2011 or are we sticking with this one?

The League that Fred is in seem to have a nice handling mod from looking at the highlights vids they produce.

[dutch power]

Yeah im using relatively lower downforce settings then others do it seems however thats my style and always worked out verry well. Its just that a car that is doing +200kmh shouldn't loose the rear end like that because with that speed a F1 car is planted on the ground no matter what the wing configuration is, F1 car can drive upside down with only 160KMH already says enough i guess. ANyway drag isnt quite right with this mod and also the lowspeed turns the amount of grip from the tyres. But ofcourse im not here to search for excuses, can only say what happend and apologise for that.

The reason i asked for a restart is because i was in 2nd place and caused a pile up on the straight, checked replay i see lots of cars driving slow, one lost his suspension and i reckon a lot had damage. In the past i think we always had some kind of rules that said when x amount crash out its restart. In montreal i get knocked out you dont hear me complain about it, but in this case it was different also i didnt wanted to wait till the first lap was completed. Several agreed so i decided to put up that vote, didnt noticed it was the wrong vote to lol, so it just came all togheter at the same time. I thought lets put a vote so it would be a fair decision but that was stupid ofcourse.

I dont think its nescerary to have restarts for a clean corner 1 and 2 , check the races back i dont think we have had so much trouble with starts. Its just the first lap pile up im talking about, in this case i took several cars with me. BUt as said next time i will keep shut and live with it whatever the result will be. Again i apologise for this mistake.

[dutch power]

O yeah Jools, the league you talking about from Fred im driving there to for many years and yes indeed this years mod is verry good and provides real good and close racing posibilities. Its a mod based on the BMW07 car from ISI with modified physiks it is not released for public use.

[Jools]

Cheers Mark, I thought it was the BMW07 but I didn't realise they'd tweaked it for their league. Be nice if we could have something like that.

[Mr G]

Firstly I would like to thank all drivers for a great and fair race really enjoyed it and had great battles

Right ! restarts i dont agree we should have them unless servers problems or unless all the driver are all out in first lap,
as like Natoxcc says he had few races last year he was out in first few corners.
Last night race I thought most of the drivers had been involed in crash with mark so as Neo had ask I put a smilly up to say ok as I was in second or third and no one was behind me.

So I say no restarts from now on expect for server or all drivers out in first lap.

As for the race I had a total of 3hrs practice up to race I was still working on setup 5min before race ( to much football on tv).
I started race on wrong tyres I was on hard which cost me a little in qualy and first stint in race Got a great start made up 2 places then out brake myself and murat got passed then was chasing Murat trying to get passed but could quite get closer enough down the straight. I first had Kalimero on me which I defened to the inside line to heavily which let him round the outside then coffee had a go at me and got passed then Natoxcc was on me tried to hold him but he got passed .
Then just kept pushing but messed up my pitstop I was sat there for a few seconds until I relised i hadnt confirmed pits stop Doh !!!! came out 10 seconds behind Murat kept pushing, then in second pitstop i was so busy sorting out fuel on track for pitstop I lost a further 10 seconds DOH !!!!!!!
I kept push was just coming to lap Kalimero and the Bear with 10 Laps to go and they were have a close battle so I back off to let them fight BUT then Murat time was dropping so I had to push and pass sorry guys had to chase down Murat which I did for 3rd place

Great Race Guys

@ Coffee move you brake Bias forward as I was on same brake Bias as you in Canada with brake ducts on 5 and had brake fail to and I think the Bear was on the same to.
I moved my slightly to the front still with brake duct on 5 and I was ok Just a thought

[natxocc]

I understand Mark, but you know that you can't ask for restarting not talking in race. I have nothing with you, you know I apreciate your quality as person and driver.
In a situation similar than Sunday, If someone can do a restart or ask for it, is only the admin/s. In this case, I have nothing to say but can't understand that people begins to talk in race, decide to restart and the admin do it with a mistake.
We were 11 drivers. 5 have problems at start but 2 of them small problems that can continue or enter in next pit and recover the race. In other races was worse and we didn't have do nothing.

[Coffeemachine]

G25 i was on 50 50 brake bias just to be on the safe side Didnt work either

as for losing the rear and dirty air in this mod, i dont really agree with you guys here. I do think its possible to lose the rear, and i think you should, here is the theory:

Dirty air in the mod is very marginal, close to none when it comes to drag, which i get the impression (DC or ant touched this the last race during one of the fp:s i believe) is correct. They said f1 cars for some reason pick up close to zero tow, and speculated it might be because the air behind a f1 is so turbulent.

Now, when you get close to someone, your front will start sliding...at high speeds. If your suspension, ARB and pressures are soft (i suspect yours are at these stop and go tracks, mine is ), when the car starts gripping again the front will grip quite fast - the car will twist itself, tilt and jerk around its own longitudinal axis, and the rear will start to slide. I feel this too sometimes, and i get the feeling ive seen it during real races at least last year with the bigger front tyres. Its not too hard to catch, its just that you need to apply some opposite very fast - then keep on going.

Also, i dont think real f1 drivers ever would put themselves in that situation - and instead just reduce the steering lock until the front is barely sliding. I always drive like this and have not been close to being caught out so far
I do believe that if you keep your steering lock in a real f1 when you catch dirty air and understeer you risk loosing the rear when the front grips if you do nothing, however since the dirty air in this mod seems to be quite narrow it might enhance the effect.

This being said, there is something fundamentally wrong going on indeed - and i realize for you mark to be caught out like that it must have been something weird. Also, im quite perplexed as to how you're supposed to make the brakes last with low wings :S

[Mr G]

G25 i was on 50 50 brake bias just to be on the safe side Didnt work either

I was 51/49 ish well dont use your brake so Much

[TheBear]

My brakes were ok with brake duct 5 and brake pressure 90%

[Mr G]

My brakes were ok with brake duct 5 and brake pressure 90%

What bias were you using ?