What are the Thoughts/Rules on blue flag

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
On a blue flag what should the passer expect and what should the passy do.

I am thinking that the passy is supposed to slow up and move of the driving line. At least that is what I do
Am I wrong here
I do not think the Passer should have to move of his line to go around the passy.
In the last couple of races this has happened and I would like to get a clear anwser on this.

It is frustrating to expect the Passy to move over and then have to slow down and go around them.

By the way the driver that is doing this you are getting flipped off.

Hitman

[Bilbo]

I don't think there's a specific answer to this as it depends much on the particular situation.

IMO, the general case would be for the "passy" to move off the line and slow a bit to let the faster car pass. Unofrtunately, sometimes the timing just isn't good. The "passer" could be gaining on the slower car in the middle of a series of turns, where there are no good places to move over. I've also witnessed incidents where both the passer and the passy made their move at the same time, which often makes strong moments in the race and even stronger moments in the race commentaries...

Personally, when giving way to a faster car, I like to make my move as obvious as possible, often going to the grass if I can safely do it, to show I'm not "racing" and as make it as early as is practical (if I'm being lapped, the lost second or two do not mean much in the bigger scope).

[Flow]

Whel this is a realy complicated question Hitman. This may help alot, do not brake hard to let a driver pass, just lift off throttle. Moving off or staying in front depend on who and where. But in any case, if the front driver brake too hard, this may cause big trouble. And let the passing driver enough space to pass and enough distance before going after him. I experiment a dangerous situation in Spain with my own patner.

I say :
if the driver in back is kind of far behind, move off...
if the driver is sudenly close to your ass, stay were you are...
(This is to avoid both driver move same time.)

On last F1 race, Michael Shumi pass a driver by using the non driving line, cause theyr were aproching a hard braking corner.

* i prefer when driver dont go in grass, if you do, its ok, normaly when i lap, i slow down to make it safe as possible, i dont mind loosing .5 to 1 sec, i prefer both driver going on safe.

[Flow]

Anyway, i think its to both driver to be responsible. The lapper have 50% of responsability as for the lapped guy. Both need to try to be prepare to any good or bad move from in front or in back...

[noob1234]

I think the optimal behavior is to go wide in the upcoming corner.
Sharp corner - go out wide and take some extra time coming back.
Fast corner - go wide and lift off a bit more than normal.

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
I know it is hard to get a set rule on this.
And I think discussing it will give us a out look on what to expect from the passer and passy.

I for example if I am the Passy
I do not wait untill the passer is on my ass
I move off the driveing line slow up and let the passer go.
This is even possiable in turns well except hair pins of course.

If I am the passer
I do back off giving the passy sometime to move over and slow up.

I think we should try to at least narrow down what should be done in the best case seniro
Well this is MHO

Hitman

[Flow]

Hitman, was it you i pass by inside at end of straight?

[killahead]

I was both passer and passy on Barcelona. When I got lapped I did exactly what "Noob" suggested.....I went wide in the hairpin (T10 is it, huh?) and MAC could pass and I dont think he lost any time....I lost like 0.5 seconds on my lap so I think that was ideal. He was fairly close behind me for a coupel of laps but I didnt want to brake and lose 2-3 seconds on my lap only for him to win by 2 laps instead of 1 u know....that don't make sense to me....hehe

I mean, even the passy is in the middle of their race and might be chasing for points (since our fastest driver *hrm*MAC*hrm* always laps EVRYONE else, ). IMO we shouldnt assume that the passy go out of their way, for example hit the grass if we are in the middle of a section of turns, IMO the passer then just have to wait for the passy to move or slow down.

If the passy dont see the blue flag there is a whole new set of problems though, hehe...

I have not experienced any problems though and by now I think our new drivers that are a little slower handles the situation quite well.

Well there are lots of situations and diffrent scenarios......and look at real F1, sometimes they have problems with lapping drivers there too....like Flow said, don't panic brake if you are a passy....might be dangerous

[Kaali]

Hhmm, seems like my friends make it sound too difficult than it is When blue flagged, go off optimal driving line and lift gas a bit, just a bit, and let driver pass ...

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello

Flow wrote:

Hitman, was it you i pass by inside at end of straight?

I am not really sure what you are asking me Flow.
You did not lap me at Barcelona so you could not have passed me under a blue flag.

Yes there are a lot of diffrent problems that can happen.
And not one of them can be put as a set rule but at least we can get a little insight on what to expect in the race.

Another thing I noticed in RF is the blue flag comes on to soon.
And that leads to even more problems
And also I am not sure RF will even penalize you for not giving way.
There are a few times where I followed a Passy for a 1/4 of the track or even more before the Passy gave room to pass.
And I beleave in F1C it would have gave you a drive thru penalty before that.
If I remember right F1C showed 3 blue flags then penalized.
Where RF shows you a blue flag but do's not have a set time before penalty is given.

Hitman

[Bilbo]

Hitman, I think it was you who complained about drivers ignoring the blue flags at San Marino, even though the one you complained about ended up DQ for it (presumably, since the logs don't say the cause of DQ). Following that, we raised the blue flag "distance" to 0.9 seconds (instead of the default 0.5 if I remember correctly). Now you're complaining about the blue flags showing up too early... What should we do now?

The blue flag has to be shown for 3 consecutive turns before a penalty is given. If it "flashes" off and on before getting to 3, the counter is reset each time.

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Say what

Bilbo Wrote:
Hitman, I think it was you who complained about drivers ignoring the blue flags at San Marino

I don't remember saying anything about blue flags at San marino or any speific track. And I do not remember or new that you guys changed the blue flag timing/distance

The reason I put up this post was to discuss this, the reason I do not give names is becuase I am not a big pussy and need to cry foul when something goes wrong on track in the race or other wise.

But if you and others feel this is just me complaining as you put it.
Then do me a favor and delete this I can handle my own.

Hitman

[Bilbo]

I don't remember saying anything about blue flags at San marino or any speific track. And I do not remember or new that you guys changed the blue flag timing/distance

Here here, that was not meant to sound like an "attack" on you, Hitman. I could be mistaken, which is why I started my sentence with "I THINK". All my apologies if it wasn't you, but someone did raise the subject of blue flags earlier and we took action on it because the passer had to stay "glued" very close to the passy's rear for the blue flag not to flicker and it was felt that was a bit dangerous.

The reason I put up this post was to discuss this, the reason I do not give names is becuase I am not a big pussy and need to cry foul when something goes wrong on track in the race or other wise.

This is all to your honor and perfectly fine. This is a good discussion and my post was in response to your "flag is raised too early" point. This is not an attack against you or anything. At the same time, if you witness a rule violation during a race (or want to "stool" yourself), you're invited to bring the matter up with an admin. That's not "being a pussy" at all.

But if you and others feel this is just me complaining as you put it.
Then do me a favor and delete this I can handle my own.

Please forgive the use of the word "complaining". I could have said "brought the subject up after a race" but "complained" was shorter and I may not have appreciated the negative component of "complaining". Please realize that for many here, myself included, English is NOT the first language. My own learning and usage of English is really technical (computers and science in general) and I can not always appreciate or express all the emotive content of each term. I did not mean to imply you were a complainer or anything.

A discussion is meant to discuss and debate ideas, can we continue debating the blue flag / lapping situation ? (please follow up any personal message by PM)

[aawil]

I must say last race was the first time in a while that I have been lapping people and not the other way around. It's an interesting change to be on both ends. But I must say I was quite happy that most were very let me go at the nearest convenient spot. A special thanks to steve and Xz from what I remember. When I'm being lapped I try and let people on a straight preferably. The last couple of races this year I've had to try and let people go without losing time to others around me.

But anyway I learned a new appreciation for getting out of the leaders way. Although at monaco everyone should use some patience.

[SteveB]

There is another question that arrises from all this in my mind.

SENARIO: what if the leader of the race is comming up on a hard faught battle...(lets say for 4th positon) 5th place driver steps aside to allow race leader by now how is the 4th place driver supposed to do without loosing his spot to 5th place because blue flags are shown.

I am trying to say that if 4th place driver moves over to respect the BLUE flag and alows race leader to go by and 5th place driver takes advantage of this and also passes you or tries to, is this allowed, or do they(4th and 5th drivers) need to retake their respective positions before BLUE flags were shown.

[Bilbo]

IMO, this is completely fine. I believe it happens often in real life too. It is called "taking advantage of the situation".

If it happened on a straight, even if #4 did not move off-line, the leader would do it to pass #4 and #5 would likely draft the leader to try the same pass on #4...

[SteveB]

fair enough.

Thanks Bilboooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

heehehe

[Flow]

Hitman, Bilbo was refering to what admin discuss about blue flag penality, since a driver in front of you Hitman got a penality for violation of blue flag for 1/4 of a lap at StMarin's race. But it was not your reference as we can see. Just dont forget we admin watch the replay of all driver of eatch race... yeah lol. And we see more than some can remember, Hehe . All infraction or whatever are repost between us, so nothing to hide.

This is little out of subject, but the good time to say it :
Just a precision, An admin cant report his own replay, and if both are involved in a situation that a penalized driver make 1 of us admin move over that driver in finish result du to penality, Its an onther division admin that call the shot, just to ensure that even between admin, we try to be the cleanest as we can and honnest.

[Bilbo]

Flow, about your first point, I already explained to Hitman and we "fixed" that in PM like adults. No hard feelings.

[carrera]

Actually it was someone else who mentioned the blue flags at san marino.I will not mention who of course because it makes no difference.The blue flag arguement is warranted and is basically a "gentlemens agreement"of sorts.Bilbo old buddy old pal and good freind.I am usually the one who complains most ..LOL...as you well know.Hitmans point and yours and flows all bring up a concern that someone while racing for position, may end up slowing up the leaders.The blue flag rules are pretty clear but also have a grey area as well.The administration can mull over it but in the end the drivers have to vent their opinion at the very least.I would vent my opinion as well if I could ever get more than 20 laps without wiping out big time.hahaha...I laugh but really inside I am crying like a baby .
There is no doubt that this rule will be the hardest to figure out.
carrera