NAR 2007 Mod open discussion.

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Well I have only done about 20 laps with the RF1GP mod.
So I can not very much comment on it.

I do have a question on it maybe Affboro can anwser this.
In cockpit view even with the seat all the way back I still feel like I am right up against the wheel And I remember this with the FIS also but is there any way to fix this. Even my mirrors are off screen.

I am going to do some laps now with the RF1GP so I will put up a server if any one wants to test.

Server name NARHItmanModTest

Hitman

[noob1234]

if you open:
//rFactor/GameData/Vehicles/rF1GP/rF1GP/rF1_cockpitinfo.ini

Code: Select all

Eyepoint=(0.0, 0.64, 0.25)          // Driver eyepoint (cockpit view only) ( +LEFT/-RIGHT, +UP/-DOWN, -FORWARD/+BACK)

The last parameter is the placement of the head along the direction of travel (actually in the negaive direction of what is normally the travel)

Change this to something like:
Eyepoint=(0.0, 0.64, 0.50)

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Noob Thanks for the help

50 is way to much I set it at 30 and that is perfect for me.

50 but my ass on the rear wing

Hitman

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
A BMW Sauber in RF1GP.

Still have some touch up and all that but thought I would play and make some F1 Teams.

Hitman

[SteveB]

I tried to do the same last night Hitman. I used the F1 Champ skin but it didn't fit the RF1GP template.

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Well the RF1GP is a modded FIS from ISI so that is the skin you have to use. It is not exact because Affboro added some wing lets and a couple of other things. But I beleave he will be working on a template for his car models when he gets some time.
I used Wardogs template there are a few things I like about it.
But it still do's not line up perfectly but I think I can get it to work with some adjustments.

I hope we don't work on the same team that would just be a waste.

Wardog also has the suit skin and the helmet to work with.

Here is a link to his site if you want to try it.
http://babylone57.free.fr/

I want to see your work when you have something

Hitman

[Flow]

Ho well the paint at this moment are not realy needed. The mod test is the most part needed. Hopefully i will be able to make some test later. Im sorry if you sont see me on track, working on the NAR website. I prefer doing it now while i can, with the admin job, i never found the time to completed it.

Maybe next week i will take 1 or 2 nights to get on track rf1gp, i only did few laps wiht it.

[noob1234]

50 but my ass on the rear wing

LMAO Extra downforce in the back

True that m8, sorry I just picked 50 to make sure I had the direction right.

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Noob
Unfortunatly I am not that heavy.

Yesterday Sunday
I/We did some runs with F1C 1.06
And I must say the more I get in to this mod the more I like it.
We had a couple of races at Silverstone that where really fun.
Then we where at Montreal and did some testing there.
Even Old man SamyPho was there where we exchanged pole times.

As for the mod F1C 1.06
Can a newbe join in and race beside the vetran, no and they should not be able to. I have never drove a real F1 car but in my mind and in my heart and listening and watching countless races I think it is really close to real. could it use a little adjusting proably (The only thing I would mess with is the back end) A little to tweatchy.
(But it can be adjusted in setup and Driver)
Another plus are the car modles they are beautiful eye candy the cockpits need to be worked but hey nothing is perfect.
More to add but I don't want to make a day out of it.

The RF1GP mod
Did some runs over the last few days.
Nice mod nice pyisics
Can A newbe jion in and race with a vetran yes. But as I stated above I don't think they should.
This mod is defently fun and if I wanted too do a quick race have fun I would go to this mod. But as for the challenge of a sim and a F1 Car it lacks in that area.

As above more to come

Hitman

[Flow]

Hitman, i think you did a great resume. From what you say, i must say im in same thinking of you. I did few laps at Montreal on 1.06, and i must say that once you get use to it, its easy to start to pace soon in practice session.

[SteveB]

I also agree, I have started testing in AUSTRALIA for 07 season with the F1 CHAMPS mod and all I can say is that the car is really fun to drive. I am starting to learn the NEW settings for the car and it feels great,in fact I find that you can push a little harder with the 06 mod than with the 1.05 F1 Champs mod.

Sorry for my early comments about the F1 Champs 06 mod and I retrack the comments I made about it.
I think the 06 mod is going to give us another exciting season in 07.

AUSRALIA initial testing: [NAR] Steve B: 1:28.1
[NAR] Juan G: 1:28.4
These times were done on the NAR OFFICIAL TRACK>>MELBOURNE
I am sure the times will get faster but I can see they will be about 1 or 2 seconds slower than last seasons times.

[noob1234]

Another plus are the car modles they are beautiful eye candy

No argument here but these can probably be re-used provided the authors give permission for the league.

As for the rest I think you may be confusing two different criteria for selecting the mod Hitman; Realistic simulation and Simulation which allows differentiation.

I would prefer a car that feels good over a car that makes me look good, but this is an individual choice.

In the end, the results are the same. You said that a newbie can run alongside a veteran in the rFGP car. I would say that is unlikely. The newbie would be able to take the rFGP car around the track, but no way would he be able to run alongside. Driving the car and driving the car quickly are two entirely different matters.

[Flow]

Well a newbe will make a veteran looks like hes driving a Ferrari or Renault, and the newbe will drive like a Spyker... even if both turn around the same track, with same car performance.

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello

Well no not exactly Noob
Well at least that is not what I was trying to say. Well may be we are just looking at it diffrent.
Will a Vetran out drive them yes
But A newbe in RF1gp can go out and pretty much be very compeditive right out of the box.

To me the F1.06 gives me a great feeling it brings out the compeditive in me where I will not let it beat me.

I am spoiled I want to look good and go fast.
I would not buy a pinto with a bmw motor.

Ok I will bite

Realistic simulation and Simulation which allows differentiation.

Please explain the diffrence Noob

I my self want Realistic Simulation (Well as close to it as posiable) Do I know what that is well no as I said never drove a f1 car.
Do I know what I think the reaction of a car should be in a certain move yes I do.
And I feel that the RF1GP lacks in this.

I am looking for a few things in a mod or simulation
Real as posiable
Fun and compeditive
runs well sounds great and looks good.
Looks are not really that important since I turn things down in ordered to get decent FPS and that.

To me RF1GP lacks in one crucial componet it do's not feel real to me.

You say that if ISI and Intel and BMW can not get it right who can.
Well have you thought that maybe they backed off made it easier for sales and profit.
People for the most part want to set it up and go around the track and win.
And I say to you the BMW phisics was modded for these people.
MHO

In anycase and I am not against doing more testing changeing things.
But for me I am not liking the RF1GP phisics.

Hitman

[noob1234]

Ok I will bite
Quote:
Realistic simulation and Simulation which allows differentiation.

Please explain the diffrence Noob

The difference is that Realistic Simulation (Actually simulation is kind of wrong word here since it is defined by the ISI engine)
But realistic choice of parameters; is trying to model the physics of a car as closely to reality as possible.
Modelling to allow differentiation is to model the physics of the car in a way which makes it more difficult to control.

During our season I have been watching replays of the various circuits as part of my preparation and I am always amazed by how smooth the f1 cars appear even when they are unsettled compared to watching my own replays. Now I realize that things will always look easy on TV and that some of the replays have TC. But I think I have been accounting for that in my assessment (Spellcheck!!).

You say that if ISI and Intel and BMW can not get it right who can.
Well have you thought that maybe they backed off made it easier for sales and profit.
People for the most part want to set it up and go around the track and win.
And I say to you the BMW phisics was modded for these people.

This is always a possibility.
But ISI seem dedicated to providing realistic simulation.
I don't see why they would back off.
If there is a "getting started"-car It would be the rTrainer.

Anyway, I think I am getting a fairly good idea what makes the F1.06 appealing and I can relate to that in a way. But it feels forced. The car feels tricky in the wrong places. Something like wet races for example would have been a better (=more natural) differentiator. (ISI really should have put this in)

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Thanks for elaborating

The problem with watching replays is that you can never depend on the camara getting the right shot.
So it is very hard to make a asesment from a replay.
Since we are not in the car there is no way to feel what gravity enirsha and phisics will do at a perticular point.

Like I have seen races where the Ferrari would pound the curbs and be smooth and the Renualt would hit the same curb and the driver head would shake back and forth the tire would jump and shake.
So how can it be posiable to make a evaluation from watching in real time or a replay.

ISI & Company had the perfect way to do it.
Thru Telemetry and having real drivers test. They should have it right or as close to it as posiable.
But for some reason (And hey it really could be me) the BMW feels fake to me in the sence that certain things do not affect it the way it should.

Noob wrote:

and I am always amazed by how smooth the f1 cars appear even when they are unsettled compared to watching my own replays.

Well this really depends on the track and the car.
fro example if you look at the Ferrai and the Renualt at Imola.
The Ferrari (I would say) is smooth over the curbs where the Renault the front tire would pound and shake and the drivers head would go back and forth.
And yes with all the down force that is created the car would appear smooth in the camara or a person on the side but and although I do not beleave that the car is actully bounceing I do beleave that there is a lot and a heavy vibration. if you watch the onbourd shots when they are going down a straight you do not see the car or camara for that matter bouncing up and down you will see some vibration thow.

One thing that amazed me and stuck in my mind.
I watched a racing documentary a while back.
And they said that they could create enough down force and enough power take a road turn it upside down an push this car along at 200mph
and it would stick to the road and not fall off.

Why did I mention this
Well this tells me that if you give a f1 car a lot of wing the preasure would be so great that it would not bounce up and down like it was 4 wheeeling.
Even if the track was rough the car with all that downforce would not bounce up and down the tires would but not the bady itself.

Well I think I am babling on now

Cu on track
Hitman

[Coffeemachine]

ISI & Company had the perfect way to do it.
Thru Telemetry and having real drivers test. They should have it right or as close to it as posiable.
But for some reason (And hey it really could be me) the BMW feels fake to me in the sence that certain things do not affect it the way it should.

I think that this is a case of us not at all, and you have admitted that, knows what we're talking about

if this is true, then isi certainly would be fairly accurate and seing 1.06 being quite different i suspect it to be further away from the reality. If they really HAD real drivers testing, i think we are in no position to say that what they came up with "feels fake" . We're prolly just used to the simworld , not that this is a bad thing imo. IF we wanted maximal realism, shouldnt we then activate tracktion control? ofc not.

and can someone contact alx and get him to test and se what he says? It could be a good idea

im not trying to be rude here, although it might seem so

[Flow]

I dont think that none of us and even a real F1 drivers will be able to get it realistic. Driving a ferrari and a Midland, and a world of difference. On Sim, you dont have G force and all the 'real' physical factor that make you 'feel' alot the car. Aids on real car the we dont realy use... and alot more that i dont have time to mentioned. Im shure those game are close enough to get some fun and think we are like real driver, and make us feel great, cause for 99% of us, this is the closest we will get to drive a F1.

This dont say that the mod need some tweek, maybe, maybe not, personaly, i cant say.

[Bilbo]

Rumor has it that the version of the BMW F1 that ISI made FOR BMW is not the same as what was released for the public. Which would make a lot of sense to me because why would BMW show their competition exactly how their car behave? F1 teams are paranoid enough that FIA had to make a rule for the teams not to hide the cars too much so the public could see them a bit...

[Flow]

BMW had probably only put theyr name on a product, but with theyr aprouval. Notice that Intell did some marketing to promote the power of they products. BMW is painted with Intel on it, and i assist to the BMW pitline park of Montreal, and Intell had almost more logo than BMW around the site. Intell/BMW had even 2 simulator with rfactor running with the Montreal track, even before it was release to public. I tried it at that time.

So after tought, im not even shure that a driver realy tested it. For shure, BMW on theyr site, was having Jacques and Heidfeld that were doing 1 fast lap of eatch GP, but not witht that game. They were and still are using another game, probably GrandPrix4...