MMG F107 comment

[Coffeemachine]

oh and just one other thing, shouldn't it ring a warning bell in our leauge when another one is started by, at the time, nar members, and this new leauge instantly "steals" half the field within a few weeks. I think this should tell us we have a problem somewhere...

[philmax]

I am agre with you and for me I think very soon there will not 10 pilots at the beginning of race of the league Europe.
but it is right only me one opinion

[Flow]

Yup, Np kafee, i remember myself not being happy with the NAR situation and that the league was going no were 3 years ago (i think), the year that Killa was completely offline, no admin, 4-6 euro on track, 9-12 NA, and discussion were going not good for NAR. I amost start a new league without the Euro division and i would probably grab half of NA, and maybe others would of follow, i say MAYBE. Instead, i put all my effort in a new website that year, and Me and BIlbo and alot of discussion and we twist Killa arm to come back as a Boss and we porpose a ADMIN system as suggestion to make the league last longer, and Killa find the idea interesting. That is what was set. This alowed NAR EURO division to survive up to now. All these effort were done for Euro, since NA was not doing that bad.

But one personal comment that will be trown like an arrow in heart and this comment is not relay directed to you Kafee, dont get mad at me for this : Complaint on NAR division, but support another league that is 'taking' half of Euro grid. If any more of us dont support them, then it will be half/half 10 on NAR euro and 10 on Rc/Klaaz league. And why drop of a league that is running 10 drivers to join another on that have 10 drivers, telling that they are more on track? No sens to me. So comment from some that they stop NAR and join Rc/Klaaz cause of lack of driver on track is not the true reason, and that they say that they use Relay is not the real reason. Relay is suppose to be open to NAR, is it? I dont know but it is supose to for Euro, we CANT use it for NA, RELAY is ALWAYS CRASHING WHEN WE START NA RACE, and at our race time, we dont have support for Relay (this is just normal + 6hours decalage). Also, i hear some complaint in euro that if we use Relay, some will quit. So what can we do? Try to please majority in best interest of League... and trying to please all and making them quit NAR for another one? Hard to follow.

So if a driver is interested to join another league and run 2 leagues, then it is just fine, and we are happy for those who do it. If some stop racing NAR and join that league, then fine, it is also good for them. But they need to be honnest on the REAL reason then. In few days/weeks (work is in progress) that the website will display who is on track in euro server and who is on track in NA server. So you wont even need to open relay or rfactor, but just your web browser and you will have info needed.

But what is not easy is to please everyone. No mather the choice admin will do, we will lost drivers and new drivers will join.

Sorry for this HARD comment, im having a bad time, and it feel good to let things out. I hope that my comment wont make anymore quit, anyway, my comment is on same level of any driver, i am not an admin, im just a simple driver just like 95% of other in here.

[Coffeemachine]

Yeah i totally agree, exept you missed one point.

Relay leauge has, at this time, a full grid, expecting 17-20 drivers each race.
So this means it will be a HUGE difference in the races.
Had it not been for this there would be no point at all not driving with NAR.

What has felt like a problem this year, flow i know you guys have put lots of effort down with the website and stuff, but we've forgotten about the essential: to race together. Ive barely seen anyone on the servers, the admins i havnt seen/heard from at all.

The last thing i want is for nar to do bad, but what it comes down to is
1 clinging to a leauge with no drivers on the servers practicing, no one who wants to use the relay software ive always used and like wery much, almost no one showing up to the races - whilst seemingly doing nothing about the situation (nothing we've heard about), OR
2 join the other leauge where 75% of the ppl i alredy know race, have a full grid, ppl on the servers driving every evening (7-8 ppl generally, mostly due to the use of relay), and admins that are around to talk to and i know very well.

Im not an administrator or so, and im not really complaining - just to get that straight. Im just presenting the situation, due to the decitions taken, we are in right now for the few of us (8-9) that still remain.

[Flow]

Ok, i tought they were only 11-12, sorry if they are almost full grid, then cool for them

[Firefly]

It is a shame that a lot of drivers have switched to another league, but there are plenty of drivers out there, so really we just need to keep a look out and recruit some more.

It's not the end of the world.

[Flow]

Shure, we always start with 17-19 drivers in Euro in past, and end up season with 7-9, and on Na side, was more 15 to end up neer 10. So if we can at least keep a steady 10-12, and grow with more driver in 2-3 weeks, this is going to be just great. Admin are doind some stuff to make some recruting. If you know any place, forum (not other league) that we can post stuff, send a PM to admin, they have a little text that they use with all info needed.

[Flow]

Anyway, what can we do, Relay is great stuff, we can expect a success for his system. Im happy for Rc/Klaaz. I still wish them good luck with their season. I just dont have time to run 2 leagues, and i prefer more dedicated it to NAR for now.

[klaaz]

Relay is suppose to be open to NAR, is it? I dont know but it is supose to for Euro, we CANT use it for NA, RELAY is ALWAYS CRASHING WHEN WE START NA RACE, and at our race time, we dont have support for Relay (this is just normal + 6hours decalage).

Last time Relay crashed by itself has been in 2007.
I have also worked on plans to make NA support during racetime possible, but somehow it never worked out,,,,

Another thing I need to point out: Its not my league in any case, I just support Relay by renting a 100mb server there so i can race with friends.
When RC got the idea we euro nar drivers werent happy with thw way things was going, he decided to work hard for some alternative.
It matched my likes alot more than NAR 2008 plans. <Relay league pro's: wintertesting / race around the FIA calendar(so mmg wasnt an option caus it was late) / Relay anti cheat protection / practize & action going on on server during the non racedays / 2008 mod

Sorry things went like they did but to be honest, alot of the desicion making the last couple of years came from overseas, and whats going on around here is mostly not the stuff that is posted in forum...

Anyway no hard feelings from my side, I just want to have fun on track and I hope you guys can also get some without me this year.

Regards klaaz

[Flow]

Personaly, thanks, that is an honnest comment about your decision. I wish you a great season and hopefully that NAR 09 will fits more your expectation.

[Bilbo]

Sorry things went like they did but to be honest, alot of the desicion making the last couple of years came from overseas,

Uhhh.... I'm not pointing the finger at you but it's not like there's ever been a big rush of Euro drivers wanting to become admins. If you're referring to me or Flow taking "too much space" those past years, you could be right but I'd reply that maybe we're just filling some kind of void that would otherwise be left unfilled, just because we care (either that or we're evil megalomaniacs wanting to take over the whole world and beginning with NAR, take your pick ). Finally, it is clear that a lot of the decisions will always come from overseas. We're an international league with 2 euro admins (when 2 euros actually do step up to the plate) and 2 NA admins, with the tie-breaker going to Killa who is euro himself. Technically, we in NA could complain that we're underrepresented. Because of our very structure, it's clear that some decisions will always come from overseas, no matter on which side of said seas you live...

and whats going on around here is mostly not the stuff that is posted in forum...

Given that I mostly just frequent this forum and my server (I only got a working connection last week so I've spent the winter driving alone), would you care to educate me about what is going on around here because maybe I'd like to join in the fun. Feel free to do so by PM if you prefer.

[SteveB]

I don't understand this practice thing.
I can't speak for the EURO side because of the time difference but with the NA side it is shaping out to be exactly like last season with the same 5 or 6 guys in the practice sessions.

I also don't understand why an admins have to be present at any of the practice sessions.
To me this just goes into the same book titled "YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE"
I can honestly say that it bothers me when a member leaves but that shouldn't disrupt the league this much IMO and as for the mod choice OMG is this going to be an issue ALL SEASON LONG????

I am sorry here guys and I mean NO DISRESPECT but let it go and try to have some fun....sheeeeesh we are starting to have more politics here than the REAL F1.

As for RELAY it went down way more than once last season and every time it happened just before our (NA) race would start then it was impossible to get back in which left us scrambling to make sure we could get the race run, not to mention some of the NA drivers had trouble with RELAY including me a few times.
I am in no means against RELAY, in fact I really like it, it is a GREAT place to meet and chat before practice or our race but like I said some NA drivers have problems with it.

ALSO IMO some people just like to win and won't accept anything less and thats a shame.

Just my thoughts on the situation.

[klaaz]

Sorry things went like they did but to be honest, alot of the desicion making the last couple of years came from overseas,

Uhhh.... I'm not pointing the finger at you but it's not like there's ever been a big rush of Euro drivers wanting to become admins. If you're referring to me or Flow taking "too much space" those past years, you could be right but I'd reply that maybe we're just filling some kind of void that would otherwise be left unfilled, just because we care (either that or we're evil megalomaniacs wanting to take over the whole world and beginning with NAR, take your pick ). Finally, it is clear that a lot of the decisions will always come from overseas. We're an international league with 2 euro admins (when 2 euros actually do step up to the plate) and 2 NA admins, with the tie-breaker going to Killa who is euro himself. Technically, we in NA could complain that we're underrepresented. Because of our very structure, it's clear that some decisions will always come from overseas, no matter on which side of said seas you live...

and whats going on around here is mostly not the stuff that is posted in forum...

Given that I mostly just frequent this forum and my server (I only got a working connection last week so I've spent the winter driving alone), would you care to educate me about what is going on around here because maybe I'd like to join in the fun. Feel free to do so by PM if you prefer.

Hahaha nice reply, really put a smile on my face

You are totally right most euro dudes complain but cant be arsed to be an admin themselfses.

about the other thing: I mean alot of feelings/vision of how things could be better dont ever make it to the forum and is mostly discussed inbetween practize sessions or in the Relay lobby. And because its overhere , the time difference makes it you NA guys mostly have no idea whats going on in the euro side, and vice versa...
Join in if ya please , but i doubt it will fit ure scedule.

Thx for the smile on my face, now back to my m8 steveB....

[klaaz]

I don't understand this practice thing.
I can't speak for the EURO side because of the time difference but with the NA side it is shaping out to be exactly like last season with the same 5 or 6 guys in the practice sessions.

I also don't understand why an admins have to be present at any of the practice sessions.
To me this just goes into the same book titled "YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE"
I can honestly say that it bothers me when a member leaves but that shouldn't disrupt the league this much IMO and as for the mod choice OMG is this going to be an issue ALL SEASON LONG????

I am sorry here guys and I mean NO DISRESPECT but let it go and try to have some fun....sheeeeesh we are starting to have more politics here than the REAL F1.

As for RELAY it went down way more than once last season and every time it happened just before our (NA) race would start then it was impossible to get back in which left us scrambling to make sure we could get the race run, not to mention some of the NA drivers had trouble with RELAY including me a few times.

I am in no means against RELAY, in fact I really like it, it is a GREAT place to meet and chat before practice or our race but like I said some NA drivers have problems with it.

ALSO IMO some people just like to win and won't accept anything less and thats a shame.

Just my thoughts on the situation.

Fist of all the last bit: . I sayed last time relay crashed by itself was last year <end of 2007 around xmas i recall, but i am hazy >. RC totally fixed that bug and its been up and stable since <unless the data center where the server is hosted has some hardware trouble.>

About practize: I really dont care if there are admins nor i need the whole NAR grid to be on server all the time.
But it would be nice to actually meet some guys on track if its not a raceday.....

Mod choise: I am sure i could have lived with mmg as NAR 2008 mod, if it only had been in time <to me thats not long after xmas...i need alot wintertesting....>

About the winning: nice u mention that. I never had the idea i could actually ever win a race ghehehe, somehow with the advantage of my albert park knowledge i managed to win my first 100% race.... But i can assure you i have no illusions and it wont ever happen again

I totally agree with cmon and try to have some fun, I am not leaving nar, i am just not activ racedriver atm. i Need my races close to what i see on the tv , elseway i will get confused wich turns i am about to enter....

regards

[killahead]

I think we will be up to speed with the "real" calendar when we come to Canada or something like that

I just want to comment about the "overseas" discussion. I must defend the NA guys here. It is probably with the dedication from SteveB, Bilbo and Flow that we (NARthat is) are here at all. Their contribution has been vital for the surviving of NAR IMO. Kllaz, you also played a huge part for the EURO side when you were here helping.

Everyone who has been admin knows how hard it is to keep everyone happy at the same time, that it is close to impossible.

The thing that buggs me a little is that people sign on to our league and then without saying anything dont even show up to the first race. I thought that were going to be 16-18 drivers at our first race, the drivers list was filling up. It is a little strange behaviour IMO. I assume that there were discussions that didn't reach the NAR forum......

Well, we are moving on and hopefully reqruit some new drivers for the coming races. We have a strong base of dedicated people and we have the experience as a league to pull through this. I hope drivers will notice this and come our way.

I would also like to wish the Relay league the best. I hope theleague turn out good. There are enough drivers to fill up both grids, we just have to find them!

[klaaz]

I second all that Killa.....

[Coffeemachine]

yup couldn't agree more with whats said.
I just hope there are NAR people out there searching for drivers, cause quite frankly i (together with many i suspect) don't have time for that - thats why i've never tried to sign up to become more then just a normal peon driver who post occationaly on the forum and show up for the races
There are lots of MMG servers out there so we should be fine

Truly hope everything will be solved! And I hope, and think, its positive we've gotten this discussion started.

[Flow]

Shure, i agree also. We just needed few word to sort things out, and finish with the 'Boss' conclusion and we all seem to agree with Killa.

To concentrate more driver in 1 server, Dan have change is server from private with password to public with no password and called it NAR practice. For at least few weeks, or untill all seats are filled, we will try to let anyone get in, and hopefully find some that are interested. Few new driver in NA were 'grab' like that. Instead of having 2-3 nar server with 3-4 driver in eatch, like i notice at few occasion, why not all get in same, and even have some fun with public. Hope this will help us a little.

[SteveB]

KLAAZ
I hope that you don't think what I said was directed to you my friend....it was just me thinking out loud.

I am very happy to see you here even if you are not an active driver for now.
I can understand the winter testing needed because I too needed it and I am suffering quite a lot right now because of the lack of winter testing.The thing is I had a lot of faith in MMG (NOT because I am a member) to release a great mod from the start at least in the MMG PRIVATE forum it was shaping out to be exactly that, unfortunately things went wrong as we all saw and I can tell you FROM MY HEART I was extremely disappointed when this happened because I felt that I let ALL NAR members down and to this day I still feel horrible.

Regardless if F1RFT is illegal or not I think it would disrupt things here even more if we were to do a mod switch now (I could be wrong....just my thoughts) like we always say it is hard to please everyone... so at this moment I feel like I am standing at a crossroad trying to figure out which way I need to go (when I say "I" .... I mean NAR admins) to get our league were it should be.

It saddens me deeply to see ANY NAR member leave and for this I feel like it is my fault they have left, I was just trying to give what ALL of us wanted and that was NAR OUT IN THE PUBLIC EYE.

I wish ALL who have left a FANTASTIC racing season also to you KLAAZ and RC.

[klaaz]

oh steveB, did i mention I love you and ure additude?
Dont let the situation get too ya too much m8, u have worked so hard and tryed ure best....some things are just not in our controle, need to accept these things and just go on
If you were closer , i d take u out for some golfball wacking