Relay for NAR

noob1234 · Post by **noob1234** » 20 Sep 2006, 02:46

Well, I will yield to whatever the admins decide but I am against the use of Relay. My computer acts strange when relay is installed and I did not get good answers to some questions regarding its activity. I would rather use an anti-cheat that is well known and has a larger installbase (if there is one).

meoPHOENIX · Post by **meoPHOENIX** » 20 Sep 2006, 08:37

this topic is now public?

may I ask what active driver has no access to the private forum?

... have a nice day! ... have fun! ... I DO !!!

meo

klaaz · Post by **klaaz** » 20 Sep 2006, 10:41

thats because RC can read it like this meo, maybe usefull...

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 20 Sep 2006, 13:32

Relay is not driving, and he might be interested to discuss/know/give tips about his Relay software.

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 20 Sep 2006, 17:29

As the one who asked for the move (for the reason that is mentioned above), I'd really be interested to know if moving this particular thread to the public forum is causing/could cause any problem or concern...

RC · Post by RC » 20 Sep 2006, 20:05

Hi,

Thanks for sharing this topic with us.

Good to read that most of you use Relay without any issues, thank you for that !

My Comments:

@Hitman

RC & Klaaz spent sometime yesterday trying to help me and figure out the problem.
After trying all of the above and them some Rc asked me to check for virus's and addware and all that stuff. Trying to figure out what is useing my resorces.
The program did find some addware but no Virus in anycase I deleted all that crap and my FPS in relay got better up to 57 FPS (But I was alone on the server) so I will have to check with some drivers on weather it will stay in and around those FPS. But with out relay I still get up in to the 80 & 90 FPS.
I still have more things to try.
1. Is to disable my HT (Hyperthreading) and see if it runs better.
2. The last resort is to format and reinstall everything (But that is just a big pain in the ass) But I really do not think this is it

I'm aware of your problems and i'm convinced that it's a individual issue, meanwhile i replied in the Relay support forum. http://relay.dynip.com

i'm sure we can fix this.

@noob1234

Well, I will yield to whatever the admins decide but I am against the use of Relay. My computer acts strange when relay is installed and I did not get good answers to some questions regarding its activity. I would rather use an anti-cheat that is well known and has a larger installbase (if there is one).

I remember you asked some questions, however i was cut -off access to the private forum and never could comment this. Regarding your statement about "My computer acts strange when Relay is installed" i can only say that this statement is very unspecific and this does not help in development, i would like to see some "facts".

noob1234 · Post by **noob1234** » 20 Sep 2006, 21:59

I remember you asked some questions, however i was cut -off access to the private forum and never could comment this. Regarding your statement about "My computer acts strange when Relay is installed" i can only say that this statement is very unspecific and this does not help in development, i would like to see some "facts".

I believe the original postings had "facts" and even screenshots.
But like I said there. I am not a windows guru. Nor do I have time to reverse engineer relay to figure out what is actually happening.
But some of the key points where:
svchost : some process, trying to access relay files after it was uninstalled.
My audio driver gone missing after installing relay.
Video mode changing after installing.
Strange folders on desktop.
Bluescreen after trying to open relay readme from the recent files list after it was uninstalled.
Ofcourse this is just alot of minor issues and could be nothing.
Although I seriously doubt it since they are pretty hard core. Like a driver going missing? What would cause that?? Or a bluescreen.. I mean a bluescreen takes a pretty damn serious offense to generate. Typically only by low level (kernel mode or whatever they are called) drivers.
So this is why I choose simply not install it again.

In addition I get nervous that there is such emphasis put on the 100% clean app award when this is obviously completely voided at each update of the binary.

RC · Post by RC » 21 Sep 2006, 00:10

Hi,

svchost : some process, trying to access relay files after it was uninstalled.

I remember this was explained by one of the other Nar members in the topic.

My audio driver gone missing after installing relay.

Impossible, my windows & programming knowledge is skilled enough to assure you 100% that this cannot be caused by Relay.

Video mode changing after installing.

Relay does not contain any components or code that make a call to the the directx API, Only tip i can give here is to install your monitor drivers.

Bluescreen after trying to open relay readme from the recent files list after it was uninstalled

Files that are not present, cannot be accessed. It's like a dive in a pool without water. Windows is like that.

Or a bluescreen.. I mean a bluescreen takes a pretty damn serious offense to generate. Typically only by low level (kernel mode or whatever they are called) drivers

Bluescreens contain error codes. I haven't seen ANY screenshots of those nor event logs that show me that the Relay.exe is causing errors like this, i cannot comment such issues without those facts.

In addition I get nervous that there is such emphasis put on the 100% clean app award when this is obviously completely voided at each update of the binary.

This is updated regulary, i'm not a company deployed with ppl that work on Relay 24/7. It's a one man show, and time is sparse.

Relay works flawless for 95% of those who use it and testing it. If there where structual errors in the code would not everyone occour issues you mentioned?

carrera · Post by **carrera** » 21 Sep 2006, 14:26

Some weird shit goin on there.
Audio driver gone missing??.Thats pretty damn strange.I don't see that one often.Maybe one of windows security updates is causing it.Treating it like its a virus.Those symptoms sure sound virus like.Unfortunately now windows files are probably damaged.Maybe not too bad though.I've found too much shit happens with service pack 2 so I still use sp1 in my 3 machines(and 1 laptop).My only answer to the problem is your machine just don't like relay...sorry...Which I had a more high tech answer..LOL...
carrera

Kaali · Post by **Kaali** » 21 Sep 2006, 15:25

good last part carrera! *GG*

klaaz · Post by **klaaz** » 21 Sep 2006, 17:12

id have too agree with the sp2 of xp, i tried it multiple times, and always ended up wishing i stayed with sp1. set it back too sp1 without problems is either really hard if not impossible....

Ruben Miranda · Post by **Ruben Miranda** » 22 Sep 2006, 00:33

Hello
Well guys no matter what I do and can be done Relay just do's not work on my Machine. If it was just a couple of FPS's it would not bother me but 20 FPS.
I will play around somemore but at this point I am just out of ideas.

If I may suggest to the Admin's before going to relay maybe we can get together and do a mock 50% race before commiting to relay.

Not to be a pain in the ass or sound like I am somebody.
But I do not want to practice for a league race and useing relay and finding out the problem for me and maybe others is worse then what is being seen now.

As noob said I will go with the dission and I won't cry.

Hitman

noob1234 · Post by **noob1234** » 22 Sep 2006, 01:27

I remember this was explained by one of the other Nar members in the topic.

Notepad.exe was explained away with the MRU list. Not svchost!

Impossible, my windows & programming knowledge is skilled enough to assure you 100% that this cannot be caused by Relay.

And yet it happened just after installing relay. How about that.

Relay does not contain any components or code that make a call to the the directx API, Only tip i can give here is to install your monitor drivers.

ChangeDisplaySettings is a windows api call, not a DX call. But nevermind that. The point is not the inconvenience of the resolution changing but the question of _why_ it happens.

Files that are not present, cannot be accessed. It's like a dive in a pool without water. Windows is like that.

I have never seen a bluescreen for anything less than a driver crash in XP and much less for trying to open a non-existing file. Come on man, get real.

Bluescreens contain error codes. I haven't seen ANY screenshots of those nor event logs that show me that the Relay.exe is causing errors like this, i cannot comment such issues without those facts.

Havent tested it, but I am pretty sure the screen capture key won't work during a bluescreen.

But I stress it again!
I sort of understand your standpoint (although you seem to try and avoid answering some things and go on the defensive instead).
You cant bug search without concrete data to reproduce the issue.
And I am not saying you should either.
But my standpoint is that anything that can cause any of the above is digging too deep into the system.
So if it is up to me I would not install it unless I am ready to track down _exactly_ what is is doing.
So when asked by the admins, I'd rather run the championship without it.
That's all.

RC · Post by RC » 22 Sep 2006, 16:53

Hi,

@Noob1234

I won't further comment your replies as their are a little too unconstructive imho.

I stress again, Relay works Flawless for the majority, there might always be individual issues like all other software...
99% turns out to be a individual problem.

Personally i think your presentation is a bit unsportmanlike, many tested it without any issue and the NAR league admins want to use it.
There "may"be another reason you refuse use it ?

I don't know your system configuration, and i find it hard to believe that Relay is wiping out drivers.

I posted the issue on a delphi expert forum[ delphi is the language used to programm Relay] to ask for a second opinion but they all laughed.

Sorry, if you want to make me belive this you have to come with some facts.

Seems the rfactor community is not Ready to accept cheat protection.

Relay does nothing more then secure yourself and other drivers against cheating.

Would you join a half-life league without cheat protection? Me won't.

Cheat protection is somthing that needs to be implented the "hard"way,
it will rise your leagues level at the end. We have ton's of leagues out there but all actin on the same unprotected (thus "low") level.

To me cheats in rfactor are a much bigger thread then a bluescreen on a unverified PC. i go back concentrating on that.

noob1234 · Post by **noob1234** » 24 Sep 2006, 19:51

hmm.. Maybe the topic of relay or not for the league is better suited for the private forum.
@RC: Re-read my posts!
1) I don't refuse to use it
2) I don't want to make _you_ believe anything. I am simply giving my reasons to the _admins_.
3) I don't mind cheat protection but I haven't seen a single case of it in rF much less in NAR. Although I have no doubt it can be done if rf servers are implemented naively to trust clients.

I think this is enough for me on this topic.
All I want to say I have already posted more than once.

Ruben Miranda · Post by **Ruben Miranda** » 30 Sep 2006, 19:34

Hello Guys
Well as I said I would try more things in hopes of being able to use relay and race with you guys.
I tried everything else so I resorted to overclocking my system just a little.
(I love you guys and want to race here) but not enough to burn my system up

In any case I boosted up a couple of things.
Vcore FSB V-card and a couple of other things.
I will not get in to all that as it would make this post a little long.

In anycase although it do's not make sence but without relay FPS 103+ Wow!!!!

With Relay FPS 73 to 77 or so well at leaset it is raceable as long as it do's not drop a lot more.

Not sure why I lose 30 FPS no matter what with Relay but ok.

a couple of pics

I can not make the Spa race to test but I will do a test hopefully sometime this weekend and see if it stays stable.

Hitman

No Aids Racing

Relay for NAR

Well nothing is working

Adjusting and OCing