relay anti cheat

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 09 Jun 2006, 01:08

My $0.02-worth of requests:

- It would be nice for a server to be shown as "not avaible for chat" while still monitoring the room created (see below). I know people have been trying to chat with my unattended server.

- While acoustic warning could be great for the clients (please make the volume configurable!), a log would be much preferred for the servers as it leaves an "official" trace which could be posted online along with the race replays, logs and stats for all to see the "authenticity" of a league race.

On the bug side, it's really weird to see a server that was properly disconnected hours (really) earlier as still listed but I'm sure you know about that one already.

Also, if you try to launch a server before connecting, the host button gets disabled and then, if you connect and try to relaunch your server, the host button never gets enabled and you have to kill the app and start anew (I've been caught a few times by that one).

Most of these are minor but still irritating.

As a last request, out of curiosity for someone who has been programming for a quarter of a century (not specialized on Windows although I still know quite a bit about it), I'd still like to know what's your take about seemingly unrelated system services referring to deleted files (Relay's files in noob's case). You can send me a PM if you think it's too technical to discuss here.

noob1234 · Post by **noob1234** » 09 Jun 2006, 01:45

Please PM me too, that is one "take" I would like to hear.

Post by **DanTheMan** » 09 Jun 2006, 14:54

Notepad trying to find a deleted file is probably due to the MRU list (Most Recently Used). No big deal...

/Daniel

klaaz · Post by **klaaz** » 09 Jun 2006, 15:16

i think we can blame bill gates for that crap then. thx for explaination dan

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 09 Jun 2006, 17:21

I'm not really worried about notepad as much as some system service trying to access the file. Note that I did not say it was evil or anything, just that it seemed something really obvious and I'd like to be educated despite the risk of being seen as an incompetent Windows programmer (most of my low-level Windows programming was done back in the days when 32-bits was going to change the world).

noob1234 · Post by **noob1234** » 11 Jun 2006, 16:55

just had another interesting experience.. again.. lol
well my gfx card overheated and I rebooted the comp without exiting windows or rFactor and then my player file went back to all default settings next time I started rF.
This pisses me off more than a little since my player file is quite tweaked to compensate for my gfx card.
But I am sure this is just another one of those 1 / 1000000 freak occurences that just happens to happen when relay is on the system.
RC does relay mess with the plr file in any specific way?

RC · Post by RC » 11 Jun 2006, 18:07

RC does relay mess with the plr file in any specific way?

Relay does not even touch your PLR, and your accusions are are a bit unpolite i think..

Please could you explain me (for heavens sake) in what way Relay can "overheat" your grafix card, it does not even call any direct 3d instruction?

aawil · Post by **aawil** » 11 Jun 2006, 19:13

IS this mandatory for silverstone?

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 11 Jun 2006, 20:23

No. It's still optional until further notice. Relay usage probably won't be required until the summer break.

There are problems with using it on the Euro server (Win2k) and we'd also like to make a clear "howto" document for the less technical drivers as Relay's UI is not that user friendly.

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 11 Jun 2006, 20:32

RC, nobody accused Relay of overheating video cards (please re-read that post).

The question was simply wether Relay used the PLR file in any way, thanks for having answered that.

Noob, rF itself DOES mess with the PLR file (try editing it while the game is open, you lose your changes when you quit the game). Also, your PLR file possibly got corrupted when you did an unclean restart and the game could have reverted to default settings because it could not reload/understand your PLR file. Try doing the same thing without Relay...

noob1234 · Post by **noob1234** » 11 Jun 2006, 21:28

RC I did not accuse relay of overheating my GFX card.

Ok, "mess with the file" probably sounded more inpolite than I intended.. I meant write to the file and possibly corrupt it if abrupted.

Bilbo, it is possible but I have only lost "pending" changes in the past and this time there where no pending changes for it to save except for the credits maybe.

Where there any theories on the svchost / notepad issue.

RC · Post by RC » 11 Jun 2006, 22:27

I thinkWhere there any theories on the svchost / notepad issue

.

Daniel explained in earlier post.

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 12 Jun 2006, 00:05

Thanks RC, but up to now, only NA is in position to use Relay. In majority of driver who test it, up to now, seem to work well.

Just take note like Bilbo said, if we use Relay for second part of season, all driver will be notify officialy that we will. For now, its up to driver to use it or not, but using it is the best way to help us find if is safe to use it officialy.

RC · Post by RC » 18 Jun 2006, 10:30

Just take note like Bilbo said, if we use Relay for second part of season, all driver will be notify officialy that we will. For now, its up to driver to use it or not, but using it is the best way to help us find if is safe to use it officialy.

tbh..from all statements i read in here i do not get the feeling that NAR is really interested to use the Relay anticheat software. Also i think NAR is still underestimate the cheat thread. Too bad as it could really arise your league above others.
Point here is..ppl won't use it if it's not forced by the administrators and Relay is useless if not all drivers are connected trough it.
Relay could be more than just a piece of anticheat software, it could be a home base for NAR. NAR seems very divided, all ppl race on different servers instead of joining together on servers that run 24/7.
Server hopping seems common here. NAR would only get better if ppl would join togheter a bit more.
Also running the championship in sequence with the "real" F1 season would be far more interesting (just a suggestion).

However, this raise the following question now: Is NAR going to use Relay or do you guys decide to run your championship without?

If yes: A better (bigger) community could be arise then with more 100Mbit servers available.

If not: I will have to find another league witch is willing to cooperate with me, and wish you "happy cheating"

Hopefully i can get a clear answer on this question, as i do not wish to await a eventually "yes" any longer, this is a waist of time for me.

Finally a big thank you to all who tested Relay in the past period.

yours,

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 18 Jun 2006, 15:35

Hey RC, dont go to conclusion too fast. We have to say that this thread is not the only one that is use to discuss about it. Admin discuss almost more post than this thread between them, and its just that its invisible for you. NAR have a admin rules that we dont want to take decision to compromise the good working of season in the best way we can. (Relay may seem to be a good thing for us)

Now that we, most of the time, have track ready in time for our race, that we have a good structure of clean administration and that we put a fair way of evaluating replay's. Our new website is almost online and its in the automatisation/programation that will alow us to have result online few minutes after race, witch is a good improvment.

Now we will attack the final decision for using Relay. Up to now, its looking good. We just want to make shure any drivers here in public have any other question and admin will wrap all info and take a decision. We also have to do a How-to install and how to use in few step to make simple and clear to driver to use it and install it in few minutes.

Also NAR is free, and no sponsor. The use of you server is free? If not, how mutch will it cost?

RC · Post by RC » 18 Jun 2006, 16:10

Flow, and other NAR members:

The server i use for Relay is located in a datacenter in germany.
The current costs for this server are €49,- month.
I share this server with another guy so this share the costs to €20,- for me.
The current server contract last till end of JULY and won't be renewed because the other guy steps out witch will raise the costs for me up to the full €49,- monthly. This is too much. If i can find another partner meanwhile i will rent a new (AMD opteron 144 based windows 2003 server). This server should be able to host a maximum of 3 dedicated rFactor games lag-free , host the Relay server module and also offer a fine place for downloads, webs etc.
Klaaz already offered to share the costs of it for the upcomming 6 months, witch seems very fair. So if i cannot find a partner to share the server costs Relay will probably "die" at the end of July. perhaps you understand now why i do not wish to wait any longer

cheers,

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 18 Jun 2006, 16:59

Ho thanks, i just realize Klaaz brought up that question of money, i just didnt made the link to both of you. We will come back on you with it.

Thanks.

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 18 Jun 2006, 19:49

Disclaimer: What follows is my personal opinion and does not represent the opinion of the NAR admins as a group or the other NAR admins individually.

RC wrote:tbh..from all statements i read in here i do not get the feeling that NAR is really interested to use the Relay anticheat software.

If it worked correctly on Dan's server (Win2K), we'd most likely be using it full time already. (I'll call this "point #1" as I will refer to it below).

Also i think NAR is still underestimate the cheat thread. Too bad as it could really arise your league above others.

Well, always speaking for myself, maybe I'm not worried that much about cheating. The fact that many of us have been racing together for years might not be stranger to that fact. Also, I have witnessed most of the top NA drivers (and some top Euro drivers too) connect through Relay (either for practice or race) and not lose any of their amazing performance, so I'm really not convinced we do have a cheating problem. If some midpack driver cheats, HE is the one losing the most in the experience...

Point here is..ppl won't use it if it's not forced by the administrators and Relay is useless if not all drivers are connected trough it.

Absolutely. Please see point #1 above. We can't force it if it does not work on the server...

Relay could be more than just a piece of anticheat software, it could be a home base for NAR. NAR seems very divided, all ppl race on different servers instead of joining together on servers that run 24/7.
Server hopping seems common here. NAR would only get better if ppl would join togheter a bit more.

IMO, the situation this year is not helped by the track situation and I fail to see where Relay or its server rental would help with this. We normally have 2 servers up 24/7 when the next race track is available (Euro (Dan's) and NA (mine)). This is a transition season for NAR and I feel things should be different next season. Also, there has always been people trying the new track-or-mod-of-the-day and I don't think that's something negative.

Also running the championship in sequence with the "real" F1 season would be far more interesting (just a suggestion).

There are arguments in favor of this and others against it or making it not possible. The immutable summer break for the Euro div being only one of the later (although I'm not saying it does not make sense).

However, this raise the following question now: Is NAR going to use Relay or do you guys decide to run your championship without?

See point #1 above.

If yes: A better (bigger) community could be arise then with more 100Mbit servers available.

You have to understand that the NAR Euro div already has a very good 100Mbps server (AFAIK) and that a server located in Germany is absolutely of no use for the NA div.

If not: I will have to find another league witch is willing to cooperate with me, and wish you "happy cheating"

Hopefully i can get a clear answer on this question, as i do not wish to await a eventually "yes" any longer, this is a waist of time for me.

I think the question you're asking is not really clear. If you're asking wether NAR will support the Relay software if point #1 is fixed, then that's most likely YES (it's been running 100% of the time that my server was up in the last weeks/months). If you're asking wether NAR will rent servers from you, then I'll let the Euro div decide as it would be mostly useless for NA. Things would likely be different if you offered 100Mbps servers located in America (or both America and Europe).

Finally a big thank you to all who tested Relay in the past period.

Major thanks to you for making it, whatever happens.

RC · Post by RC » 18 Jun 2006, 21:27

Bilbo,

If it worked correctly on Dan's server (Win2K), we'd most likely be using it full time already. (I'll call this "point #1" as I will refer to it below).

You clearly are not well informed about Relay's features. As earlier explained in this topic: There is no need to run the Relay client on dan's server to announce this server in the Relay client., Relay offers other features for that. Servers can be announced by adding ONE simple line to the Relay server module. This really cannot be an issue.

IMO, the situation this year is not helped by the track situation and I fail to see where Relay or its server rental would help with this. We normally have 2 servers up 24/7 when the next race track is available (Euro (Dan's) and NA (mine)). This is a transition season for NAR and I feel things should be different next season. Also, there has always been people trying the new track-or-mod-of-the-day and I don't think that's something negative.

Agree here, the whole situation is far from perfect. rfactor communety is WAY too divided, ppl hopping from one server to the other, it's gamespy-like behaviour. ton's of empty servers in racecast or in game lobby. Whatfor ? To gain members? This cannot be a healthy situation.
Imo it would be way more effective if we have multiple 100 mbit servers available 24/7 and join forces. Advertize that on Racesimcentral and organize events. That would be a lot more effective recruitment. Relay could help big time in such. As long as ppl know where to find servers with players they will come for sure.

Cheers,

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 01 Jul 2006, 06:46

Today, I have noticed it took significantly longer to login (via RDC) to my server PC (a few seconds vs instantly). I just realized that Relay takes 100% of the CPU on that machine, which explains things. It did not do that before.

That PC is running WinXP Pro OEM with 768MB of RAM on an AthlonXP 2400+. I have included a screenshot. The Rf dedi server was running normally (actually idle when I checked).