Hi all racingfriends!
I am curious what type of equipment u guys use....
Q1:What type of wheel do u use?
Q2:Do u use Force Feedback
Q3:Single or split axxis
My answers:
1:Momo force
2:Yes,full
3:Split
Fredrik
Curiosity killed the cat...
Curiosity killed the cat...
"corrner wass not to tight,tspeed wass too high" Mika Hakkinen (If I remember correctly) after an offtrack expedition
)-
dutch power
- NAR administrator
- Posts: 1511
- Joined: 02 Mar 2003, 14:39
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some kind of a ferrari steer not that replica but an other one, im pretty happy with it.
Force feedback euhm whats that..... well i don use it ( i hink im the only one) why i dont know, im used to it mayby i should try it out
well... only after the ending of the season then.
And ofcourse a split
No split axel is slower
btw hopefuly next week my simulator is finished, and hopefuly soon i get an better conection
3 mbit
Force feedback euhm whats that..... well i don use it ( i hink im the only one) why i dont know, im used to it mayby i should try it out
well... only after the ending of the season then.And ofcourse a split
No split axel is slower
btw hopefuly next week my simulator is finished, and hopefuly soon i get an better conection
3 mbit-
P.Gårdewall
- Posts: 19
- Joined: 06 Jul 2003, 23:24
- Location: Sweden
HI
cant hardley write in this slooooow forum,it takes forever.....
1» MOMO Force
2» Force Feedback - OFF
3» Combined Axis
i cant drive with split axis as i dont get it why u have to use throttle while braking?,offcourse you can push the weight forward even more when you brake if you put more brake pressure on the rear wheels and in the same time use alot of throttle to push the car forward.
Trail Braking..you brake while you turn the car in to the apex is maybe easier with splitt axis but you can use trailbraking even with a 50/50% throttle/brake as you have with combinied axis.
most of you know what trail braking is? but for the others here is a hint..
The printed manual implies that trail braking (a.k.a. 'brake-turning', braking while turning toward the apex of a corner) can't or shouldn't be done in GPL. This is certainly true when you are learning, but every decent racing driver I know of uses trail braking, so it's another learning curve for you to climb sooner or later. However, learn trail braking slowly; if you're used to road driving (where you're taught to finish braking before turning into a corner) then you might find it tricky to learn the extra delicacy demanded by trail braking. In GPL, the trade-off between brake pressure and steering input is hard to judge when you can't feel the car turning and pitching through your body.
What is trail braking? In essence, it means continuing to brake after having turned in for a corner. The further you progress into the corner, the more you turn the steering wheel and the more pressure you release from the brake pedal. Typically, the procedure goes like this:
You are hurtling in a straight line toward a corner;
You apply the brakes - fully - while still travelling in a straight line;
At some point, you release a little pressure from the brakes and start to turn in;
As you bend into the corner and approach the throttle application point, you progressively release the rest of the pressure from the brake.
What's the point of it? Trail braking helps you rotate the car into a corner by controlling the transfer of weight onto the front tires, giving them more stick, and thus compensating for any understeering tendancy the car would otherwise have.
The alternative is: do all of your braking in a straight line, then release the brakes entirely, then turn in. The trouble with this technique is that when you release the brakes, weight - and therefore stick - will be removed from the front tires, just when you need them to be loaded enough to turn the car into the corner. So - unless the car is set up to be driven like this - it will understeer away from the corner. This is typical behaviour for 'street' (aka massively understeering) cars that have been adapted for racing.
On the other hand, a 'proper' race car will probably oversteer if you don't trail brake. If you turn into a corner with your feet off both brake and throttle, the front tires will have all their traction budget available for turning while the back wheels will be doing some (engine) braking. Net result: oversteer. In GPL, this is especially noticeable on setups that use 'realistic' differentials (i.e. those with few clutches and high coast side ramp angles). In this case, application of the brakes settles down the oversteer by substituting a proportionately balanced loss of steering traction (because the brakes are biased towards the front). In fact, with a 'realistic' differential, you use the brake pressure to control the rate at which the car rotates into the corner.
How much trail braking you do at a particular corner - i.e. what percentage of the corner is taken under braking - depends on the angle of the corner. For a 60° corner (e.g. Monza/Curva Grande), you'd typically only trail for a few percent of the corner, for a 90° corner (e.g. Monza/Lesmo 2, Monaco/Virage du Portier) you'd typically trail brake for maybe 25% of the corner, and for a bigger corner (e.g. Monza/Parabolica) you could do it for up to 50% of the corner. You are aiming to trail off the brakes until they are released completely at or before the throttle application point (which typically occurs somewhere before the geometric apex).
Another way of looking at trail braking is: what you're doing is braking so late for a corner, that you're never going to make it if you carry on in a straight line. In order just to stay on the track, you have to release a little of the pressure on the brake pedal and bend the car into the corner, just to give yourself a little more road - enough extra road to finish the braking. Kyalami/Crowthorne, Monza/Parabolica, Silverstone/Stowe are prime examples of this. If you find that you've finished braking before the throttle application point in these corners, then you didn't brake late enough. (BTW, if the car won't turn in when you release a little brake pressure, then you probably need to reduce the front brake bias; likewise, if the car swaps ends when you turn in, add some front brake bias).
Just about every corner you brake for demands some amount of trail braking (I'm struggling to think of an obvious exception in GPL - anyone?) Good ones to practise on are: Kyalami/Crowthorne, Monaco/Virage du Portier, Mexico/Turn 1 (what else are you going to do?!), Monza/(all of them), Rouen/Scierie, Silverstone/Woodcote, Spa/Les Combe, Spa/Blanchimont. The contrast between Monaco/Virage du Portier and Monza/Curva Grande could hardly be greater, but you use same technique at both, honest...
Alison Hine: “[trail braking] takes a good setup, a deft touch on brake, throttle and steering, and a lot of practice. I use a setup with brake balance fairly far forward (usually 58 to 60% on the front wheels) and trail brake to rotate the car. The rate and smoothness with which you trail off the brake (i.e. smoothly release brake pressure as you turn the car into the corner) is critical, and is probably one of the most difficult and subtle things to learn in GPL.”
Tim Sharp: “Some drivers brake hard enough in a straight line to slow their car down for the corner, but then they totally release the brake or go to the throttle before they get to the apex of the corner. They transfer the weight off the front tires and onto the rear wheels just when they need their steering the most. This can cause the car to go into an understeer skid. In order to keep the weight on the front and the tire contact patches expanded for optimal steering, you should use trail braking. Trail braking is simply continuing to apply a diminishing percentage of braking until you complete your turn into the apex. The transition from trail braking to the apex and the application of throttle to the track-out point should be smooth and seamless so as not to upset the chassis.”
Ricardo Nunnini: Never take your foot completely off the brake until you reach the throttle application point. From the turn in point to the throttle application point, use a relatively constant amount of brake pressure and small dabs of throttle to balance the car. Just before you get to the throttle application point, release the car from the corner by pressing the throttle and then - afterwards - fully releasing the brake.
For more advice, I refer you to history:
The first 'friction circle' (or 'g-g') diagram was drawn circa 1957 by Albert Fonda;
Stirling Moss independantly discovered the technique around 1960, and wrote about it in his 1963 book “Design and Behaviour of the Racing car”.
Jim Clark undoubtedly mastered trail braking in Formula One;
Jackie Stewart said that the last thing he learned to do properly was to take his foot off the brake pedal correctly;
Mario Andretti came up with the Zen-like meditation "it is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula One level, think that the brakes are for slowing the car down".
cant hardley write in this slooooow forum,it takes forever.....
1» MOMO Force
2» Force Feedback - OFF
3» Combined Axis
i cant drive with split axis as i dont get it why u have to use throttle while braking?,offcourse you can push the weight forward even more when you brake if you put more brake pressure on the rear wheels and in the same time use alot of throttle to push the car forward.
Trail Braking..you brake while you turn the car in to the apex is maybe easier with splitt axis but you can use trailbraking even with a 50/50% throttle/brake as you have with combinied axis.
most of you know what trail braking is? but for the others here is a hint..
The printed manual implies that trail braking (a.k.a. 'brake-turning', braking while turning toward the apex of a corner) can't or shouldn't be done in GPL. This is certainly true when you are learning, but every decent racing driver I know of uses trail braking, so it's another learning curve for you to climb sooner or later. However, learn trail braking slowly; if you're used to road driving (where you're taught to finish braking before turning into a corner) then you might find it tricky to learn the extra delicacy demanded by trail braking. In GPL, the trade-off between brake pressure and steering input is hard to judge when you can't feel the car turning and pitching through your body.
What is trail braking? In essence, it means continuing to brake after having turned in for a corner. The further you progress into the corner, the more you turn the steering wheel and the more pressure you release from the brake pedal. Typically, the procedure goes like this:
You are hurtling in a straight line toward a corner;
You apply the brakes - fully - while still travelling in a straight line;
At some point, you release a little pressure from the brakes and start to turn in;
As you bend into the corner and approach the throttle application point, you progressively release the rest of the pressure from the brake.
What's the point of it? Trail braking helps you rotate the car into a corner by controlling the transfer of weight onto the front tires, giving them more stick, and thus compensating for any understeering tendancy the car would otherwise have.
The alternative is: do all of your braking in a straight line, then release the brakes entirely, then turn in. The trouble with this technique is that when you release the brakes, weight - and therefore stick - will be removed from the front tires, just when you need them to be loaded enough to turn the car into the corner. So - unless the car is set up to be driven like this - it will understeer away from the corner. This is typical behaviour for 'street' (aka massively understeering) cars that have been adapted for racing.
On the other hand, a 'proper' race car will probably oversteer if you don't trail brake. If you turn into a corner with your feet off both brake and throttle, the front tires will have all their traction budget available for turning while the back wheels will be doing some (engine) braking. Net result: oversteer. In GPL, this is especially noticeable on setups that use 'realistic' differentials (i.e. those with few clutches and high coast side ramp angles). In this case, application of the brakes settles down the oversteer by substituting a proportionately balanced loss of steering traction (because the brakes are biased towards the front). In fact, with a 'realistic' differential, you use the brake pressure to control the rate at which the car rotates into the corner.
How much trail braking you do at a particular corner - i.e. what percentage of the corner is taken under braking - depends on the angle of the corner. For a 60° corner (e.g. Monza/Curva Grande), you'd typically only trail for a few percent of the corner, for a 90° corner (e.g. Monza/Lesmo 2, Monaco/Virage du Portier) you'd typically trail brake for maybe 25% of the corner, and for a bigger corner (e.g. Monza/Parabolica) you could do it for up to 50% of the corner. You are aiming to trail off the brakes until they are released completely at or before the throttle application point (which typically occurs somewhere before the geometric apex).
Another way of looking at trail braking is: what you're doing is braking so late for a corner, that you're never going to make it if you carry on in a straight line. In order just to stay on the track, you have to release a little of the pressure on the brake pedal and bend the car into the corner, just to give yourself a little more road - enough extra road to finish the braking. Kyalami/Crowthorne, Monza/Parabolica, Silverstone/Stowe are prime examples of this. If you find that you've finished braking before the throttle application point in these corners, then you didn't brake late enough. (BTW, if the car won't turn in when you release a little brake pressure, then you probably need to reduce the front brake bias; likewise, if the car swaps ends when you turn in, add some front brake bias).
Just about every corner you brake for demands some amount of trail braking (I'm struggling to think of an obvious exception in GPL - anyone?) Good ones to practise on are: Kyalami/Crowthorne, Monaco/Virage du Portier, Mexico/Turn 1 (what else are you going to do?!), Monza/(all of them), Rouen/Scierie, Silverstone/Woodcote, Spa/Les Combe, Spa/Blanchimont. The contrast between Monaco/Virage du Portier and Monza/Curva Grande could hardly be greater, but you use same technique at both, honest...
Alison Hine: “[trail braking] takes a good setup, a deft touch on brake, throttle and steering, and a lot of practice. I use a setup with brake balance fairly far forward (usually 58 to 60% on the front wheels) and trail brake to rotate the car. The rate and smoothness with which you trail off the brake (i.e. smoothly release brake pressure as you turn the car into the corner) is critical, and is probably one of the most difficult and subtle things to learn in GPL.”
Tim Sharp: “Some drivers brake hard enough in a straight line to slow their car down for the corner, but then they totally release the brake or go to the throttle before they get to the apex of the corner. They transfer the weight off the front tires and onto the rear wheels just when they need their steering the most. This can cause the car to go into an understeer skid. In order to keep the weight on the front and the tire contact patches expanded for optimal steering, you should use trail braking. Trail braking is simply continuing to apply a diminishing percentage of braking until you complete your turn into the apex. The transition from trail braking to the apex and the application of throttle to the track-out point should be smooth and seamless so as not to upset the chassis.”
Ricardo Nunnini: Never take your foot completely off the brake until you reach the throttle application point. From the turn in point to the throttle application point, use a relatively constant amount of brake pressure and small dabs of throttle to balance the car. Just before you get to the throttle application point, release the car from the corner by pressing the throttle and then - afterwards - fully releasing the brake.
For more advice, I refer you to history:
The first 'friction circle' (or 'g-g') diagram was drawn circa 1957 by Albert Fonda;
Stirling Moss independantly discovered the technique around 1960, and wrote about it in his 1963 book “Design and Behaviour of the Racing car”.
Jim Clark undoubtedly mastered trail braking in Formula One;
Jackie Stewart said that the last thing he learned to do properly was to take his foot off the brake pedal correctly;
Mario Andretti came up with the Zen-like meditation "it is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula One level, think that the brakes are for slowing the car down".
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Dutch Devil
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 27 Jul 2003, 12:49
- Location: Netherlands
OKEY DOKEY..
1.Logitech Wingman formula force gp(I know what your sayin...this guy is suffering with that piece of junk)
2,force feedback only during earthquake....any other time no way it sux
3.Banana split???(sorry i'm hungry)spit(patooie)axis and duct tape.
This is the first time i have been able to get into forum since last week...
went fast just now though.Dan is hard at work again and seems to have it fixed.or maybe his connection to server got better like he said he was hoping in post earlier.
and as for trail braking in the corner.I think we all do it.I just have my brake bias more to the front for safety so i don't loop it .Helps me trail brake longer
1.Logitech Wingman formula force gp(I know what your sayin...this guy is suffering with that piece of junk)
2,force feedback only during earthquake....any other time no way it sux
3.Banana split???(sorry i'm hungry)spit(patooie)axis and duct tape.
This is the first time i have been able to get into forum since last week...
went fast just now though.Dan is hard at work again and seems to have it fixed.or maybe his connection to server got better like he said he was hoping in post earlier.
and as for trail braking in the corner.I think we all do it.I just have my brake bias more to the front for safety so i don't loop it .Helps me trail brake longer
Quote"Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl 'Will you marry me?' The girl said, 'NO!' And the guy lived happily ever after and rode motorcycles and went fishing and hunting and played golf a lot and drank beer .The end""
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P.Gårdewall
- Posts: 19
- Joined: 06 Jul 2003, 23:24
- Location: Sweden
}
Well i have a new steering wheel as of 2 months ago...
Microsoft sidewinder...I know the name microsoft instills fear among all...but the steering wheel works like a charm.I was so impressed i bought the company...then sold it to finance my Dwarf throwing competitions...any donations can be mailed to:::: iamsobroke@ican'tevenpayattention.com
LOL...please do not mail any more Dwarves to me..they don't get here alive and they stink wheeeewwyyy...specially the one merc sent me..was still alive though when he got here...but sent him to the loonie bin after he kept repeating something about a 57 dodge steering wheel?
never was the same after that...poor guy...
remember next time to send food and cut airholes ok merc???
he musta lived sucking the air out of beer bottles eh?
carrera
Microsoft sidewinder...I know the name microsoft instills fear among all...but the steering wheel works like a charm.I was so impressed i bought the company...then sold it to finance my Dwarf throwing competitions...any donations can be mailed to:::: iamsobroke@ican'tevenpayattention.com
LOL...please do not mail any more Dwarves to me..they don't get here alive and they stink wheeeewwyyy...specially the one merc sent me..was still alive though when he got here...but sent him to the loonie bin after he kept repeating something about a 57 dodge steering wheel?
never was the same after that...poor guy...
remember next time to send food and cut airholes ok merc???
he musta lived sucking the air out of beer bottles eh?
carrera
Quote"Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl 'Will you marry me?' The girl said, 'NO!' And the guy lived happily ever after and rode motorcycles and went fishing and hunting and played golf a lot and drank beer .The end""
By the Way merc...if you call your two dwarves the same name like say...mo....and....mo..then legally you own a momo steering wheel 
carrera
carrera
Quote"Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl 'Will you marry me?' The girl said, 'NO!' And the guy lived happily ever after and rode motorcycles and went fishing and hunting and played golf a lot and drank beer .The end""