Mod (re-)evaluation

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Admin Narleague
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Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by Admin Narleague »

With the MMG F1 2007 mod not completely fulfilling everyone's expectations and many drivers quitting the league recently, the NAR admins are currently evaluating different scenarios, some of which do include a mod switch. Please understand that, at this time, it does NOT mean there will be a mod switch, just that we're looking into that as a POSSIBILITY. To make things clear, any kind of mod switch cannot happen before the Barcelona race, at the very earliest, and all championship points accumulated before a mod switch would remain untouched, i.e. we would CONTINUE the season, NOT "reset" or "restart" it, out of respect for those who invested their time and patience in racing the season with NAR.

This being said, the admins are willing to take suggestions for alternative F1 mods. We have already looked at a few this winter but some mods did come out relatively late and may have been overlooked or are just not known to us. Please say why you like it and what you don't like about it, if appropriate (please try to keep things civil and not get into bashing mode, that's not useful to anyone).

Using different mods for the two divisions is not an option, so the input from ALL drivers is equally important. Also, one of the reasons we went with the MMG mod this year was to make NAR more accessible for new members. Maintaining that goal means limiting the choice to publicly available mods without any custom NAR modifications (like NAR-private physics for example).

Finally, please note that the admins will pay particular attention to what current NAR drivers say, although drivers who quit already are more than welcome to give feedback. There would be a poll before any mod switch unless there is overwhelming agreement among active drivers IN THE FORUM (so all you constantly chatting, MSN/Relay/IM freaks, bring the action in here where we can all see it! :wink:
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Racer
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by Racer »

well, letme start the action,

Racing for EURO, what Ever mod we Race, MMG, or F1RFT dont matter to me , bring it on, :mrgreen:
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Ruben Miranda
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by Ruben Miranda »

Hello
Well I know you asked no to start a fight or bashing each other and all that.
And this really is not my attention And I am only one.

But (For me) (I do not will not speak for others)
I like the MMG Mod
I have been trying my best to practice as much as I can to get used to it and Learn,
My self I like the challenge it posses.
And to put in more time for the next few races only to have to switch again.
I my self will not do that, I can not see my self wasting time like this.
I am sorry that things did not work out as planned and others decided to leave NAR and chose a easier mod. Again I am not looking for a fight here but that is the way I see it.

Myself I am against any mod change so it do's not matter really.
But I would point out that is you chose (And all indications that you will) F1RFT mod.
It is a illegal mod it is a rip from FSOne and others they (FSone) have been trying to work things out but have had no luck there.
In any case myself I can not will not use stolen work it will go for showing support for those who are doing the wrong thing.

Well thats my opinion and I only speak for me
Hitman 8)
I might not be fast, But I am ahead of you.
Ruben Hitman Miranda
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Paul M
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by Paul M »

Think of the MMG mod as if it were a brand new home you bought from looking at the floor plan and specs at a home builders office only.

It looks great on paper and it has great potential, it should meet all your needs, you are hopeful your friends and family like it as much as you. There were other builders out there and they had great plans as well; but the home you bought was better suited to your needs. As the house is being built you can see the bells and whistles and your excitement grows as the move in date gets closer. Finally your move in date arrives, you pack your hopes and dreams, you get the keys from the builder and move in. The next morning you wake up and start to unpack and begin your new life and....................................

Bam!!!! what the "$%&#", the toilets are missing, the door bell sounds like a strangled cat, the Windows are dirty and the basement is flooded. So you call the Builder and say, What's going on? The builder explains that he made a mistake and some of the contractors were not done and some said they made a few mistakes but it will all be corrected soon and true to his word they are corrected but not 100% that will take more time.

Meanwhile your neighbours move in and they seem nice....at first, but it is clear that they feel superior because they bought from another builder. They keep on about how their house is better and you should have bought from their builder. You continue to pressure your builder to fix the deficiencies and he keeps saying I want it fixed as well but I want it done the right way no quick fixes. You still have confidence in your builder because the house you bought has great bones, and you can make it work for you better than any house you have seen.
Besides, everyone knows that with any new house it takes time for grass to grow, gardens to bloom, driveways to be paved and fences to be built.

Your neighbor is still hassling you, he's not a bad guy just confident in his own opinions. When the fence goes up he will be easier to get along with.

Moral of the story:

"Fences make good neighbours"
"All Fences have gates"
"When a neighbour moves away, another neighbour moves in"

Don't change the MOD, be patient and let the builder fix the problems
"You don't have to like it, you just have to do it"
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Firefly
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by Firefly »

I'm happy with the MMG mod, although at the same time a change of mod wouldn't bother me too much.

I haven't really had any big problems with it, and the few small issues that i've had I would simply put down to not being used to the mod - i'm getting more used to it now and it seems fine to me.

It sounds like you would give us plenty of notice ahead of a possible mod change so that is good. :)
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LeDoug
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by LeDoug »

It look like I' ll be the first "bad boy"!

I would really enjoy to switch to F1RFT!
Physics are not perfect but at least they make sense!!!!
The car is fun to drive and you dont have to spend so much time in setup (meaning more time racing online with other)
I ve read a lot about ILLEGAL MOD - STEAL FROM FSONE etc... but where you guys see a FRAUD (and remember that those mods are TOTALLY FREE and MADE FOR THE COMMUNITY), I see genious mind.
These hungarian guys find the way to make from bad and unlogical physic something Fun and logic , and trust me that is a performance!

Now about Nar EURO until it look like Nar NA are mainly happy with MMG, I think this is really clear that there is a problem with MMG MOD!
People who have already retired from NAR EURO were not "end of grid drivers" and it 's worry me to see someone like Drago or Mac leave the league!
When I join Nar , I understand that it didnt have nothing to do with perfomances but more about fun!
Because of mod with time-consuming setup process and difficult physics, good Nar friend already left! (Mag, Meo,Tackman, etc.....)
I remember driving with them in F1C + RH / F1C + ETCC / etc.. and the physics wasnt "REAL" (I get to hate that word) but it was FUN!

So here you go, this is what I think about the mod situation.

I hope i ve offense no-one until I dont want to do so!

I am sure admin will have more opinion to take in count and will be able to take a correct decision!

About if I will stay if we switch or not the mod, I will take my decision later and let you all know until I will not make any retirement treat.
I have to much respect in Nar to do so!

Friendly

LeDoug
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klaaz
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by klaaz »

Hitman wrote:But I would point out that is you chose (And all indications that you will) F1RFT mod.
It is a illegal mod it is a rip from FSOne and others they (FSone) have been trying to work things out but have had no luck there.
In any case myself I can not will not use stolen work it will go for showing support for those who are doing the wrong thing.

Well thats my opinion and I only speak for me
Hitman 8)
Hi ruben. Can you present me evidence RFT mod is illegal plz?

Hi,

There are some suggestive discussions around about the legality of the F1RFT 2008 mod by Sompir.
brings you the facts...

1. Sompir used original rFactor BMW physics from the original, LIKE _FSONE_ etc), so phisycs based on only original rF BMW, NOT other mods.

2. for cars, he used original F1 2001 and F1 2002 models (!!!), simply converted them, then modified them, alone, and dont use other mods models etc, FSONE and MMG use that method too(!!!), so cars and models DONT contains leeched stuff too.

3. Sompir exactly knows what is legal and what is leeched stuff, and he no need other works, cos he can make it alone, with a lot of and more work.

4. Like FSONE and MMG, F1RFT 08 not use any leeched stuff, no doubt about it.


http://relay.dynip.com/forums/index.php?a=topic&t=129

To get on topic, I wouldnt advice a mod switch for you guys either.
I talk too much....
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Flow
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by Flow »

klaaz wrote:To get on topic, I wouldnt advice a mod switch for you guys either.
Why are you suggesting to not switch mod? If your defending the mod but suggest to not use it?

Personaly, i didnt make my mind yet on the subject, i will drive waht we will drive, but im still hesitating on stay with MMG or change for F1FRT. Im more concern about the Euro league situation more than the Mod.
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klaaz
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by klaaz »

sorry i didnt eleborate.
I think a switch is bad, especially so soon in the season, no matter witch mod you guys had choosen earlier. If you decide to switch, you probable wont make the dissidents come back, and maybe facing another 50% loss <because the guys that really like mmgwont be happy>.
Maybe during summer brake is a window of opportunety.
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by Flow »

Ok that is why admin post this thread, if grabing back 6 driver to loose 6 in other than, that wont solve any problem.
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bigmac777
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by bigmac777 »

hi guys
klaaz wrote:I think a switch is bad, especially so soon in the season, no matter witch mod you guys had choosen earlier. If you decide to switch, you probable wont make the dissidents come back

I would come back as soon as we switch to F1RFT personnaly, spain GP is in 1 month, 4th GP of the season, almost too late to preserve the championship interest.
Summer break usually let NAR with 6 drivers on track for the end of the season, add a mod switch then...how many will see it.

Now about mods, I don't see any other alternative than F1RFT, I would compare F1RFT and MMG and say 1 is simulation and the other a game.
I don't agree with some here that say F1RFT is an easy mod, try it first guys. All is about how the physics react to setup changes.
MMG has his own style while F1RFT reacts more like the other mods we had for many years now.
Plz, watch your MMG settings guys, why are there so many extreme values in a good set?
I feel like the car can't balance right, who needs to learn how to setup a moon car.

May sound hard for these guys, but that's how i feel it, only personnal but i want to keep the pleasure i have when i find something that works with logically thinking.

And wow what a blast it could be if both leagues could full fill the both grids, just dreaming awake but NAR on sunday RELAY on monday :mrgreen: on same mod.

The easier way to refill the grid for sure.

Regards

MAC
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klaaz
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by klaaz »

Very valid arguments Mac :)

Damn its hard to be league admin....
I talk too much....
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bigmac777
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by bigmac777 »

:wink:
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by Flow »

I found this comment on F1FRT (march 7th, 2008) : http://www.virtualr.net/f1rft-2008-10-%e2%80%93-review/
You can even download the mon on that page, they posted a link.
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Racer
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by Racer »

what about all off u guys that did not test F1RFT go out there and do some serius testing,

we all now about MMG, the good and the bad, before closing all doors do some testing and see what u think,
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by SteveB »

Here is the proof that F1FRT is an illegal/leeched mod (partly)
This is the letter that was sent to CODEX from F1FRT boss man.


Dear FSONE team and there chief Codex!

At your request, I made a very deep examination of my F1RFT mod.
And I have to apologizes you, because it is true that, the well rims are from FSONE mod. (ex. LF rim gmt.)
The car sounds are indeed the F1 Challenge copies, which are the same like FSONE sounds. But they are not FSONE sounds. And also but, and also sorry, the xxx.sfx files are modified from FSONE scripts. I did not find anything else from FSONE.
What can I do It is to apologizes, all of you and I try now to ask for your permission, to use that in my F1RFT 2008 mod. Of course in a next upgrade I will mention the FSONE team in the install read me file. And I will make public on the F1RFT website my mistake, after I will have the FSONE team permission and can be published the F1RFT 2008 mod on the rfactorcentral website.
Now I look with clean conscience to the future. I wish that the Rfactor users will notice with acquiescence, and if is necessary will colligate, and will be god mods for the Rfactor fans, and it will be friendship between FSONE and F1RFT teams.
Thank you that you listen to me.
I wait for your answer, witch I hope will acquiescence the rfactocentrals Pete Walsh so.

With regards,
-Sompir- Magl�di Imre, F1RFT Hungarian.--


You can read it here if you like: http://f1rft.110mb.com/news.html

The F1FRT 2007 mod has been removed and an agreement was reached ( I assume) between FSONE and F1FRT because the F1FRT 2008 mod is still available for download.

Hope this puts the legality of the mod issue to rest.

Steve B
FORZA FERRARI !!

2011 NA DIV ADMIN

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Duck
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by Duck »

Hi guys,
I can write alot, i'm famous for it, but as long as i try to drive the renewed mmg mod i like it. It's hard to find a reasonable setup, but with some help and have the opportunity to try other (good)drivers diff setups i learn alot. And times get better all the time.
I will be happy to find the competitions in this mod.
I also agree with most of you, to exchange expiriance.
What is most frustrating in changing mods is; to reinvent all setups and drivingstyles in other words spilling all the time we invest to feelgood in the car.
But whenever there's a reason to change mods i will adapt and find a way to stay in the top 10....hahaha.
Racegreets
Duck
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Bilbo
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by Bilbo »

Thanks for the feedback, guys, and for those who haven't already posted, keep it coming! I hope everyone realizes that this thread does not imply that there will be a mod switch but that it is one of the things we admins are evaluating, thus the need for feedback because, you know, two wrongs don't make a right. I think we wouldn't be doing our job as admins if we did not do the exercise, no matter if there is a switch or not in the end.

As for my opinion about MMG, I happen to like it but then, I'm not the one doing the biggest work on setups given that I generally drive what other drivers generously share with me. I can tweak an already-made setup to fit my driving style or fit my technique to the setup but, even after all these years, I am still mostly unable to make a setup from scratch by myself, and that is independent of the mod in my case. Once you have a decent setup, I find MMG quite enjoyable to drive, even though it took some adaptation at first, which I think is normal. Personally, I don't have any major issues with it, other than the drivers who quit over it. But then, we could be driving go-karts in NAR and I'd still like it so I'm not a good reference point! :wink:
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by klaaz »

Steve B wrote:Here is the proof that F1FRT is an illegal/leeched mod (partly)
This is the letter that was sent to CODEX from F1FRT boss man.


Dear FSONE team and there chief Codex!

At your request, I made a very deep examination of my F1RFT mod.
And I have to apologizes you, because it is true that, the well rims are from FSONE mod. (ex. LF rim gmt.)
The car sounds are indeed the F1 Challenge copies, which are the same like FSONE sounds. But they are not FSONE sounds. And also but, and also sorry, the xxx.sfx files are modified from FSONE scripts. I did not find anything else from FSONE.
What can I do It is to apologizes, all of you and I try now to ask for your permission, to use that in my F1RFT 2008 mod. Of course in a next upgrade I will mention the FSONE team in the install read me file. And I will make public on the F1RFT website my mistake, after I will have the FSONE team permission and can be published the F1RFT 2008 mod on the rfactorcentral website.
Now I look with clean conscience to the future. I wish that the Rfactor users will notice with acquiescence, and if is necessary will colligate, and will be god mods for the Rfactor fans, and it will be friendship between FSONE and F1RFT teams.
Thank you that you listen to me.
I wait for your answer, witch I hope will acquiescence the rfactocentrals Pete Walsh so.

With regards,
-Sompir- Magl�di Imre, F1RFT Hungarian.--


You can read it here if you like: http://f1rft.110mb.com/news.html

The F1FRT 2007 mod has been removed and an agreement was reached ( I assume) between FSONE and F1FRT because the F1FRT 2008 mod is still available for download.

Hope this puts the legality of the mod issue to rest.

Steve B
Than you steveB.
To me it sounds like an overlooked detail and not deliberate rip off another mans hard work, but then again I can only guess what really happenend.
Atleast its cleared up what we facing here, and folks can decide who they think is the good nor the bad guys :)
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sailsy
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Re: Mod (re-)evaluation

Post by sailsy »

Some great posts there guys!!

Well what can i say.

I have been racing in both leagues so to speak and everytime i get time to practice im always drawn more to f1rft i find mmg so hard to setup and never really get a set i can drive well to compete!! As legal issues go i think thats just a side step Just have a look at what we Driving last year and how the Big Wigs of the comunity treated another mod maker!!!


Another thing i think needs looking into also is the use of Relay while we compete not only as a anti cheat tool but also a place where NAR members can meet to practice etc. You want to see the number of big leagues there now that use Relay for there league races!!

Anyway for me id choose F1rft but will still compete in NAR if mmg succeeds but i know i will spend more time and fun on F1rft.

Wow that was a long post for me hehe!!
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