Who will win the F1 Championship?

SteveB · Post by **SteveB** » 21 Oct 2007, 21:32

I am glad to see cheaters never prosper (McLaren)
I hope that they learned something this season and they do better as they grow up.

WELL SAID Hitman

I would have to totally disagree with you Flow.
I don't think it was cheating at all just a smart and tacktful way of using team orders.Very classy and very well done IMO.

They totally respected the fact that this was MASSA'S home race and that he could have easily won this race but didn't embarrass him at all on track.

Face it FERRARI were untouchable today.

dutch power · Post by **dutch power** » 21 Oct 2007, 22:42

OMG i just hear the news that the Chamionship for Kimi is unsure, the cars of Rosberg and Heidfeld en Kubica are under investigation, they seem that have ilegal fuel or something not sure whats going on yet but if they loose there places Hamiltion will win it afterall

Hell i thought we had enough crap this season, now its over and still stuff is going on lol wassup with F1

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 21 Oct 2007, 23:04

The BMW Sauber and Williams teams are being investigated by Brazilian Grand Prix stewards over possible technical irregularities on their cars at the end of Sunday’s Interlagos race. The enquiries are believed to relate to fuel temperatures.

Nico Rosberg finished fourth for Williams, with Robert Kubica and Nick Heidfeld fifth and sixth respectively for BMW Sauber. If they were to be disqualified, it would move McLaren’s Lewis Hamilton up from seventh to fourth, making him world champion, rather than Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen.

Raikkonen won the race from team mate Felipe Massa, with McLaren’s Fernando Alonso third.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... /7023.html

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 21 Oct 2007, 23:11

I am fully happy that Kimi won, no mather if Ferrari did or did not change the order of car. No mather what, it is because a rule was set, and finaly it is there for no real effect. I just find it stupid, then just remove that rules. Anyway, ferrari DIDNT realy cheat, but just find again, a way to use a rule by reading between lines, and use it at theyr advantage, they are better than McLaren at that stuff

But i prefer see Kimi win over Hamilton. But FIA want Hamilton to win (just a feeling

but at least, Berni says it loud, he would like Hamilton to win). Imagine pool forum, i hope that not too mutch money was already distributed bewteen better on kimi over hamilton, they will have to ask back money and refund others, lol

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 21 Oct 2007, 23:31

It is the temperature of fuel that was injected in the car at the pit stop that was 10 degree colder than the ambiant temperature, witch is against the rule.

The reason of the rule is that more the fuel is colder, more you can put in the thank, cause its volume is reduce with cold. All team reduce the temperature, but they need to keep it under rule specification.

What i dont like is that FIA can decide whater to penalized with a fine ($) or by position or disqualification. But they have the choice of who will be the champion in theyr hand, that is not good... they should have penality preset in advance, then all could be fair.

They didnt not penalized Hamilton for using too mutch tire in practice, only $$$$ penality, cause it was a Team mistake. Then in this case, it is again a Team mistake, so other than a fine, no position or point penality should be given... pfff, lets see what they will decide.

dutch power · Post by **dutch power** » 21 Oct 2007, 23:48

The only different is that in race the points are given. Latest news is that the 3 cars are deemed ilegal so penalty is most likely gonna be Disqualification wich means Hamilton will win it afterall.

I cant realy see how you can give a money penalty here, this is the race its different then using a set of tyres in practise wich wasnt allowed lol.

Then again, lets see how inconsistent fia realy is, fia ferrari international asistent

Im pretty sure they find a way to let kimi keep his champions title.

edit: Flow from what i understanded the colder fuel can give you horsepower advantage, they say that with 10 degree colder it could give over 10 to 15 HP extra.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 22 Oct 2007, 00:00

What a soap opera. lol

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 22 Oct 2007, 03:09

Yeah maybe Mark, but colder fuel take less volume in thank also, you can carry more. But performance maybe the idea that is more important to team then.

As you say, and my brother said same, this is race, DQ is usualy used, tire fine ($) was for practice, logical.

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 22 Oct 2007, 03:16

HO NO PENALITY, OFFICIAL FROM FIA, NEWS JUST DROP DOWN :

The BMW Sauber and Williams teams have escaped penalty after being investigated by Brazilian Grand Prix stewards over fuel irregularities on their cars at the end of Sunday’s Interlagos race.

Under Formula One racing’s technical regulations fuel temperatures are not allowed to fall more than 10 degrees Celsius below ambient air temperature at any time. According to FIA data, Williams and BMW Sauber exceeded this range during the race, but after lengthy deliberations stewards chose not to impose sanctions.

However, McLaren are expected to appeal the stewards' decision, which if overturned could have serious implications for the 2007 drivers' championship.

Nico Rosberg finished fourth for Williams, with Robert Kubica and Nick Heidfeld fifth and sixth respectively for BMW Sauber. If they were to be disqualified, Lewis Hamilton would move up to from seventh to fourth, giving him enough points to beat Kimi Raikkonen to the title.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... /7023.html

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 22 Oct 2007, 03:18

Just found this news :

McLaren have informed the FIA of their intent to appeal the stewards' decision not to penalise the BMW and Williams teams.

A report from Jo Bauer, the FIA technical delegate, stated that temperatures of fuel samples taken from both cars of each team were outside the regulations.

Article 6.5.5 of the Formula One technical regulations states: "No fuel on board the car may be more than ten degrees centigrade below ambient temperature."

The International Court of Appeal would have to accept the appeal, and then a date would be set. If then, should the Court of Appeal overturn the stewards' decision and disqualify the BMW and Williams drivers, the new results would elevate Lewis Hamilton to fourth. This would give him enough points to beat Kimi Raikkonen and take the championship.

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/news/a ... /view.html

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 22 Oct 2007, 03:51

Mark, i just read that the cold, make the fuel have a less volume, and that less volume make the engine have more performance. So we were both right

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 22 Oct 2007, 04:13

Less volume also means faster pitstops because the fuel transfer happens faster...

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 22 Oct 2007, 14:01

Barichello mechano told him before the race that they hide a lighter in is car and to use it if he want to burn the car after the race... lol that says alot.

dutch power · Post by **dutch power** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:01

I was also right, no penalty,

Dont get me wrong, im happy that kimi won but agian this shows how incosistent FIA realy is, mclaren is fined cuz they used extra tyre set in practise. 3 Drivers had iregaluraties with fuel during "race" and nothing is done about it cuz of the outcome.

Its one big joke, each team is finding the limit and finding loopholes, some may be caught some not. It will always be the same, so people who think that all things happen fair and square are just blind i guess. Thats F1 ,.. politiks rocks

And about the fuell, well the important thing was that it could give horsepower advantage and if it loads faster you gain also,.. but thats not be penalized,.. like i said before one way or the other FIA rules

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:12

Didn't McLaren announce they would appeal the decision to give no penalty?

SteveB · Post by **SteveB** » 22 Oct 2007, 17:28

Indeed they did Bilbo.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 0117.shtml

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 22 Oct 2007, 19:13

Flow wrote:Just found this news :

McLaren have informed the FIA of their intent to appeal the stewards' decision not to penalise the BMW and Williams teams.

A report from Jo Bauer, the FIA technical delegate, stated that temperatures of fuel samples taken from both cars of each team were outside the regulations.

Article 6.5.5 of the Formula One technical regulations states: "No fuel on board the car may be more than ten degrees centigrade below ambient temperature."

The International Court of Appeal would have to accept the appeal, and then a date would be set. If then, should the Court of Appeal overturn the stewards' decision and disqualify the BMW and Williams drivers, the new results would elevate Lewis Hamilton to fourth. This would give him enough points to beat Kimi Raikkonen and take the championship.

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/news/a ... /view.html

They will regret to not have drop the drivers point at same time as constructors points.

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 23 Oct 2007, 00:40

If McLaren does not win their appeal on the fuel temperature case, Hamilton can spend the winter blaming himself for twice losing the driver's championship. First was the sand trap in pitlane at Shanghai and then at Brazil when:

"My finger slipped on the steering wheel and I accidentally pressed the button used for the starting sequence," Hamilton confided several hours after the event, according to Montreal's French-language daily newspaper La Presse.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 0432.shtml

Reflect on this the next time you mis-shift or hit the wrong button on your wheel in a NAR race...

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 23 Oct 2007, 01:00

dutch power wrote:
Its one big joke, each team is finding the limit and finding loopholes, some may be caught some not. It will always be the same, so people who think that all things happen fair and square are just blind i guess. Thats F1 ,.. politiks rocks

It's like this in ALL sports, not just F1, Steroids in baseball and football, blood doping in cycling and track and field, a shame really, you never know who is a true competitor....

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 23 Oct 2007, 01:03

Steve wrote:you never know who is a true competitor....

Oh, I have a good idea about this... <Bilbo looks around and prays he's right>