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Can we block or not in race...

Posted: 08 Jun 2007, 03:30
by Flow
Confusing, and dont worry, even real F1 driver are confused about that rule. I post this since admin already discuss this, and 2 drivers ask me about this in past days, so i thought to bring some old dicussion post in past, and some comment of real F1 drive about it.

Seem that it is one move to block. But there is some controvercy about if a driver can come back to the right driving line. Confusion if it is a illegal block or a normal move to get driving line. All forum discussion, nothing official from FIA.

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But this if from FIA official rules document:

INCIDENTS
52) "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to
the race director for investigation) which :

- necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 155 ;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code ;
- caused a false start by one or more cars ;
- caused a collision ;
- forced a driver off the track ;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.


Unless it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the above, any incidents involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.

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Bilbo post this last year : http://forumserver.zapto.org/NAR/viewto ... 3788#13788

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This is some comment from REAL F1 driver about blocking situation... The last comment/sentence of article resume it clear :

(...) The bottom line, Montoya says, is that the drivers need a clearer set of parameters. "It just needs to be more clear what you are allowed to do and what you are not allowed to do," Montoya said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?id=1796615

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Even Jacques Villeneuve today said that Hamilton done some move at start of race, that if some other driver would of done, they would got DQ. (but we all know how Villeneuve's comment are usualy flaming)

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My personal comment :
Admin may be more severe, since we are playing a game, and some take it verry competively, so to be fair. This is still at basis, only a game, and we must not loose the fun of fighting position, but we must not screw others race. Use judgment, i dont like when a driver let me pass too easy, but i dont like a driver that move more than once to block me. (this is not admin point of view, especialy since im not an admin).

I like a fight but this is not a easy anwser

Posted: 08 Jun 2007, 06:21
by Ruben Miranda
Hello
Well for me and the way I see it In real F1 and in game.
The one Block move is done for a Straight. This is not done for corners.

My understanding.
On a Straight you are allowed to move over and block once then you must give way to the faster driver. In other wise you can not weave back and forth in front of a faster driver all the way down a long straight.

But blocking in to a corner as to say protecting tour position by blocking the driving line or sliding over to force the other driver to back off is allowed.

But what should not be allowed is
Hitting someone so that he goes off track or in to the grass or what ever.
On a straight or in a corner.

I myself would also add that if the driver you are fighting with gets position on you and is on the inside and has his front wing out in front I consider that he has me beat and give him the position.
Under this it would be unfair and foolish to push the issue you have been beat live to fight another day and not mess up yours and another race.
This is the right thing to do and the fair thing to do.

I have a sim driving thing that I worked on way back win with another friend I will find it clean it up and post it for the admins to check out and see if we can fine tune it and post it.
Not that I have not made mistakes I am not saying I am the best or anything but we might all learn something.

Hitman 8)

A racing guide

Posted: 08 Jun 2007, 15:33
by Ruben Miranda
Hello
I think there are some changes to be made (This was done during the F1 Challenge days and another league) But most of it still stands I beleave.
One thing is the first part Collision damage I have not looked at this for RF might be much better now.

Would love to discuss this and make changes if there is any.
I read this (Even thou I did a lot of it) I can say that I made some of these
mistakes.
In any case I still found it good reading now I need to reapply what I have learned from myself and others over the years. :D
Passing Technices
Racing is a test of skill; on line racing is a test of skill and manners!
Strategy;
Tip #1
PING COUNTS! If you have a higher ping, you MUST take it into account! The higher the ping, the more room you must give. It sucks, but that's life (in the fast lane).

Tip #2
Start of Race
This is where most get in trouble by getting hit or hitting other cars.
Think of the race as a "REAL WORLD" event. If you were racing in a real world event you would do all you can to avoid damaging your car. Practice the same mindset here.
Most of the tracks make it extremely hard to pass at the start. Drivers are all going full throttle and are aiming at holding the racing line. If you get too close or take a "DIVE BOMB" approach to a corner you are very likely to crash into another player. If this happens you, the other player, or both will spin out.
If you can not see around the corner, then that's probably not a good place to make a pass.
If the turn is so tight that you can't see it's exit, the person in front of you will have to slow down to make the corner cleanly. Which leads into my second tip:
Durring Race.

Tip #2
Don't watch the car in front of you!
If you are following close behind someone, don't look at them. If you do, you'll make slightly amplified versions of all their mistakes. Let your 'subconscious' keep an eye on them, while you consciously keep your eyes on track markers, apexes and the like.

Tip #3
Back off and give them some room.If they go in too hot and either spin or go off track, you should now have a clear shot through the corner. Don't assume that the lead car will make a mistake and run in too hot yourself! I've seen too many accidents (and been in some too!) where the leading car braked, only to have the following car slam into them.

Tip #4
Keep at least a cars width distance when passing. While I love to race door handle to door handle, with the collision engine the way it is, it's just not a very good idea. The "zone of collision" as I like to call it, is not well defined in PU. Some cars it seems to be under the paint, and some over a foot from the body.

Tip #5
The best passes are PLANNED. This means that you know the track, your opponent, and your car. While knowing your opponent can help (i.e. which corners he/she is bad at, where their braking points are, their normal line through a corner), knowing the track and what your car can do are the most important. This allows you to plan your pass not simply react to what your opponent does.

Tip #6
Don't get frustrated if you can't get around someone! The best real world drivers (Jackie Stewart and Mario Andretti come to mind first), CONTROL the speed of a race by DENYING passing opportunities. This does not mean that they block other drivers trying to pass them, it means that they have learned how to follow the best line through a corner which would make anyone trying to pass them have to take a bad or ill-advised line through a corner.

Even with the awesome power and control of today's F1 cars, the driver to the first corner at Monaco has a substantially higher chance to win that race (barring mechanical failure or accident) due to Monaco's tight circuit design and the obsequious Armco barriers. I'm not saying you CAN'T pass at Monaco, only that it can be very hard to pull off.

Some of the best online racers are almost impossible to pass cleanly because they are using a good line and know what their car can do. Many is the time that I've waited for a leading car to make a mistake, just to end up at the finish still behind them.

Tip #7
If you can stay within the painted lane markers AND maintain your line, you should do so. Blocking moves are permitted, IF you know that a passing car is closing, but is still behind you (more than 24 meters). You should make a blocking move ONLY if the closing car is at your relative speed (within 5 miles an hour) AND you are not in a turn. If you can't tell how much faster the closing car is going that you are, just stand your ground. If they ARE going quite a bit faster than you, you shouldn't get in their way. That will guarantee somebody getting mad at you.

Tip #8
When you are in a corner, just follow your line. Remember, it's the PASSING cars responsibility to keep the pass clean.

Tip #9
Worry about the road ahead of you, not what's behind you. Do your best to forget what's happening behind you. All it will do is distract you from your primary duty, to watch where you are going!

Tip #10
When you make your pass, make sure you have gotten far enough ahead not to catch the front end of the person when you go back to your line. This is where most of the accidents that make people mad happen. It's mostly because of choosing a bad place to pass, but it can also happen when you make a pass on a straight and you think that you had more than enough speed to pass and put them behind you, but in reality you only had enough speed to get slightly in front of them. You figure you made it past them and move back over, putting your rear

Tip #11
Pay attention to what you are doing and use your instruments to make up for what you can't see. Pilots fly 1000's of hours by instruments alone, and learn to trust the instruments more than their own eyes. There is reason for this. Pilots flying through a storm can't even SEE the ground and have to trust that the instruments are giving them correct information. Similarly, we can't simply turn our heads and SEE where the other car is. We have to trust our instruments to supply that missing information for us. Being able to do this raises your "situational awareness" and can (it does!) prevent simple mistakes.

Definition of DIVE BOMB; A "dive bomb" pass occurs when the overtaking car pulls out from a significant distance back and, by charging into the braking zone, brakes impossibly late from an impossibly high entry speed. Suddenly realizing that a minor misjudgment is about to turn into a monumental disaster, the driver of the overtaking car locks up the brakes and slides into the back/side/front of the blissfully unaware leader. In SCCA, this would be considered an "overoptimistic" pass; in any form of racing, online or real world, it's not acceptable behavior.
Follow these guidelines and you will start to have fewer crashes.

Racing is a test of skill;
On line racing is a test of skill and manners!
That being said, let us explore driving habits and some of the unspoken rules.

The first unspoken rule is “Drive Clean”.
No one likes a dirty driver or to be rammed.

If you run a race and try your best to stay on the road and not hit ANYTHING, your chances of the #1 position are much better than if you bounce off everything in sight.

Brakes are our friends, use them.
"Go slower to go faster" is an accepted fact. Losing the line or going off the track wastes valuable time. Remember Brakes & Tires are cold for the first two or three laps.

Blocking or shutting the door, is an accepted practice. The skill needed to get around a blocker is a lot higher than the skill needed to get around a track.

Catching me is one thing, PASSING me cleanly is another.
Anyone behind the wheel can ram.
It does not take talent, but my hat is off to the guys that can get by without incident.

RL (Real Life) racing carries severe penalties for dirty drivers.
Black flags, Point penalties, and Disqualifcation for repeat offenders in structured racing and for the truly idiotic street racers, loss of license and/or national debt class insurance premiums.

Awor does not have all these checks built in, and it is up to the racers to police their own.

Some players will say, "This is just a game, get a life" and, yes, it is a game.
HOWEVER it is a game with rules, written and implied.

Keeping it clean = more fun. (At least for me) and may be you.
Hitman8)

Posted: 08 Jun 2007, 16:39
by Flow
I like it all. :)

Posted: 09 Jun 2007, 02:38
by SteveB
I second that.

AWESOME stuff Hitman. :)
Well written.