To cut or not to cut, that is the question

Post by **DanTheMan** » 04 May 2003, 23:13

I must say that I am pretty disapponted with how the qualification turned out today.

First I go out and cut the curb myself without backing off, and then I see three of the top 4 drivers do the same.

Personally I put about half a tire on the green stuff in the fast chikane. I don't know why I didn't back off.

Mark's pole lap included three (3!!!) cuts, one in the fast chikane and two in the chikane before the start/finish line. At least one of the cuts was big enough that he couldn't possibly have missed it.

Both Karlsson and LGL did the same thing I did, cutting the corner in the fast chikane by touching the green stuff. It was a marginal cut for both of them, just about half a tire, but rules are rules. That green stuff is out of bounds!

Ok, enough with the complaints! How about finding a solution to this? My suggestion is as follows:

* Everyone must have "Record hotlap" turned on in F1 2002.
* Prior to the QUAL everyone must clear their best time. This will make F1 2002 record the best lap during qualification. This unfortunately means everyone needs to restart F1 2002 and do the modification before Killa goes to QUAL, otherwise you could end up with a hotlap from the practice.
* After the race everyone sends in their hotlaps. If the hotlap shows curb-cutting the person automatically gets 30 seconds added to their race time.

This is not a simple solution, but it should at least work. Does anyone have a better solution?

/Daniel

sirsmokealot · Post by **sirsmokealot** » 05 May 2003, 01:14

oh my god .... when i started this F1 adventure i barely knew how to install a game , i am ok with send telemetry , but i am a technical cpu fool , so i would rather have it easy and not too many file stuff exept the telemetry thing ... WELL just my words

BUT is that what we need , then we goddamm need it ..

IF u all in top 4 cutted track, I gotta be honest , I am disgusted to see what level it has turned into then , if the level is so high u need to CHEAT to reach podium ... BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT CUTTING IS , CHEATING CHEATING CHEATING ..... i am trying to make good talk about our league online ,BUT its hard to stand up to my words if we cant even trust eachother here , aaargh i thought we were honest drivers . THIS make a conclution, THIS FINDTHELIMIT STUFF "DRIVES" us crasy ... REMEMBER BECAUSE FTL ACCEPT THE LINE , DOSENT MEEN NOAIDSRACING LEAGUE DOES. i sit here

mad dissapointed , well no words discribe how i feel to hear about that many cuts , I REALLY HOPE AND PRAY IT WAS ONLY LAGG PROBLEMS !!!!! BUT IF IT WASENT u dudes schould be embaresed ....U KNOW WHO IT IS I TALK ABOUT IF U FEEL HIT BY MY WORDS ... i am going to bed , wake up in 5 hours, and think this over again , maybe i over react but i really think its a sad thing this CUTTING BISSNESS !!!! remember 1 lap dosent make a star

........

I CROSS MY FINGERS NOW, HOPING A BAD LAGG CAUSED A "lookalike" CUT from top 4 !!!!!!! if not

NAR MEMBER FOREVER
SIRSADALOT

tackman · Post by **tackman** » 05 May 2003, 05:58

Dan!

Is it possible for you to make the FTL start file harder in judgement so it fits for NAR,would be the easy way.

Fredrik

[NAR]Mark · Post by **[NAR]Mark** » 05 May 2003, 12:48

Sorry Dan but i dont know what you saw there....I dont cutting

Can we that eternal stupid discussions not cease???
I see here a great RIVALITÄT(YEAH BABY)...but...please...let us doing that in a healthful mass

My race was a adventure...no red lights with DQ...and in pit was then the end...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

My quwestion now:
Who want see my video?
Anybody can have my video...you can sit down in my car and can RACING...YEAH BABY!!!

Mail me!!!

keep racing
Mark

tackman · Post by **tackman** » 05 May 2003, 14:08

To Mark!

I dont need the video...I KNOW what happend.
You are a lousy driver...maybe fast,but a very bad racer.

[NAR]Mark · Post by **[NAR]Mark** » 05 May 2003, 15:07

Whats going here???
Tackman, stop your flout...you are here the lousy driver...you cant tolerate when another driver faster is as you!

And im not a bad racer....you cant hold my pace
when i make force then you become to much antsy and cant driving.... Karlson and ALX are cool but you....and in race was you the only one with laagy what i have seen

And my video its only for funn

also....stop your flout and checking your behavior..

killahead · Post by **killahead** » 05 May 2003, 16:00

I am too very dissapointed today, even though I finished 3rd but thats not the point. I went out early on qualifying and did one lap, after that I stayed in the pits and watched other drivers. Too my big surprise many of the top drivers cut corners, but I told myself that "they will back off that lap" or "it wont happen again" but it did. We have a no talking rule in Q but I felt that I had to say something to get everyone to respect the rules but it didnt help.

I have let down my guard on this in Div 1 lately cause I trust you people, NAR spirit is to be your own police, I have to check too ofcourse but NAR is all about honesty. If we are not honest about this there is no point in doing this. Its not fun to know that some people cut corners and get away with it. Big dissapointment since I thought we were very clear on this. In the Race info section I think there are 6-7 screen shots from the Canada circuit, and they have been there since last time we raced there in 2002 so no mistake can be made about the rules.

I know it says that you will be DQ if you cut and I actually DQ:ed Sigma last year but he was way off the track (misunderstanding). But the point is to make you aware of that there are rules that everyone HAVE to follow to make it as fair as possible.

I have to agree with SirSmokeAlot, FindTheLimit is making some drivers crazy. Ofcourse you can all upload there and be fast but the bottom line is, you can NOT drive NAR-legal and have position #1 in FTL.

I thought I could let my guard down and enjoy my racing 100% but obviously I cant. Its sad, but if I have to I will start checking everyone again.

Daniels solution for the problem is good but it would take forever to make everyone understand and to actually do it would be even harder. Im gonna think about this some more, watch the race replay etc, I dont want to judge right now, Im not gonna make an impulse decision but one thing is clear. Cutting will NEVER be allowed.

/ Martin

sirsmokealot · Post by **sirsmokealot** » 05 May 2003, 17:07

hmm a little thought .....

1st now we do 12 lap qualify , i think we schould REDUCE qualify laps to 1 or 2 , SIMPLY BECAUSE we then have time to send cars on qualify lap, 1 at the time . NOW some of u think HE IS CRASY (maybe i am) , BUT if u know u have 15 other players eyes on u

, I dont think u would cut then . WOULD U

Post by **DanTheMan** » 05 May 2003, 17:12

sirsmokealot,

I like your suggestions since it is closer to real life. If done properly it doesn't even have to take much more time than the qual does today.

However, from a strictly personal perspective I dislike the 1 lap qual. I'm not consistent enough to benefit from it. BUT, if it helps the league I'm all for it.

/Dnaiel

Post by **DanTheMan** » 05 May 2003, 17:42

tackman wrote:Dan!

Is it possible for you to make the FTL start file harder in judgement so it fits for NAR,would be the easy way.

Fredrik

Yes, it is possible. In fact, FSR is using their own files for this and it works very well. UNFORTUNATELY, they do their qual offline and then send in the data to have it checked (they can check temselves too). That would not work with the online qual that we do.

But it is a good suggestion!!!

/Daniel

dutch power · Post by **dutch power** » 05 May 2003, 18:07

What a discusion

what shal i say

rules are rules so everyone who cut there give a penalty to them they earned it.

FTL makes me crazy:twisted: yes it does

. FTL is FTL and not NAR, so the laps i do for FTL are sometimes laps with cutting in it. But when its NAR raceday my laps are clean no doubt for me, in race its different sometimes it hapens that u cut a bit well it happens everyone i think.

And i think its a good idea to introduce the 1 hotlap method like they do in real F1, thats what we want it must be as real as in the real F1 though???

But the old fashion way of qualify is fun, o yeah i must have those last .300 seconds to be on pole so u drive the shit out of u car and u know that u have to drive a good lap

this way i prefer so i think the best way to prove that u have a good quali lap is tho record it on vcr.

But if u do it like that way there are some problems:

What if i decide to do 2 laps it only record last lapu did and what if the first one was faster??

How do u save the lap , save rejoin, save rejoin save rejoin??? because it record over the last lap???

DIV2 rules if i see those guys driving i almost never see them cutting also during NAR raceday i sometomes spy and i almost never see them cutting

Greetz DP

(hmmm damn i wrote to much aaaa what the hack 1.31 at Nurnburg here i come"i hope")

tackman · Post by **tackman** » 05 May 2003, 18:43

Mark

You are funny

tackman · Post by **tackman** » 05 May 2003, 18:45

To Dan!

The file should work in the way that you not get a time if you cut.

Fredrik

Mostwanted 1 · Post by **Mostwanted 1** » 05 May 2003, 19:26

Hi guys

Wel i dont think this race is the proudest momant of [NAR] history,but hey..... we all have our ups and downs

i cant wait too see the replay

........But man does this race call on alot of emotions!!
I think the whole foundation of [NAR] is shakking on his rudements

you know what......I think a good amount of [NAR] drivers have reached
a level that every litlle tyni bit counts!!!! we are going faster and faster..... ther is almost NO room for mistakes......reaching for that PERFECT setup......,PERFECT lap......,PERFECT race.... the rivalry and the wil too
win...! too be the fastest...! is incredible!!!!!!!!
And you know what.............IT WILL ONLY GET WORS!!!!
I hope we don't end up in some kind of a nutty house.... hehehe
i dont have a solution for the "cutting".........or the somtimes massive amounts of dropouts coused by " collisions".....................................
Good luck killahaed!!!

..........with this great league

cya on the track guys

Michael

LGL · Post by **LGL** » 06 May 2003, 19:42

hhhhh

LGL · Post by **LGL** » 06 May 2003, 20:08

Hi all curblovers

when i drove my Q lap i dident see that i touched the green curb (adrenalin i soupose) honestly i dident see it!!!

but if Dan saw it i have to belive him,no doubt
the only thing we can do about this problem is to do Q laps one at a time
so we all can judge, its not easy for Killa alone to watch and listen to us all
during qual

Alx · Post by **Alx** » 07 May 2003, 01:18

Yes Killa, maybe we should have a poll on this. I was always for one lap quali anyway, talk about piling the pressure on!! Man, it would be awesome! And no cutting at all. It would not have to take very long. Would be a lot more fun to be able to watch everyone go and then go yourself (Im talking about quali here...hehe

)

What do you guys think? Maybe something to try for one race and see?
/@lx

Ferdi · Post by **Ferdi** » 07 May 2003, 10:58

Hi guys,

I agree with most guys here, Qualy one single hotlap!
So my suggestion is following:

Every driver make a hotlap alone (outlap, hotlap and back to pit).
The starting grid for qualify is (see the champ results for Div2, but reverse order):

01: Canax
02: Aaron Williams
03: Tobber
04: Magnussen
05: Akis
06: Haba
07: Edu
08: Panchu
09: Dutch power
10: Steve
11: Dondon
12: Dani2i
13: Ferdi FRT
14: BigMac 777
15: SirSmokeAlot
16: Mostwanted 1

So Canax will start the qualify, when he begins with the hotlap the second driver (aaron Williams) will start with his outlap etc...
Personnally I think this is a great solution to make a clean hotlap (without cutting), because everyone is watching you!

Then another thing. Formlaps are at NAR because the "sync thing" (O well, not sure about that..

)
When we go to starting grid before race we got 30 seconds time before the start light will lit. My suggestion is following:
Is it possible to delete the formlap? As you know the tyre will be cold after a formlap and could make problems at the first corner (no grip while braking), well at least Div1 got problems with this!

Is it possible to change the time before the startlights will start? let say 90 seconds, I think this is enough time to solve the "sync thing" too and another positive thing is that everyone have more time to laod his setup, go to the toilet, finish your sigarette etc

I hope we (Div2) can try this at Europe race.

Greetz,
Ferdi_FRT

SamyPho · Post by **SamyPho** » 07 May 2003, 13:10

Hi all
One qualify lap for everyone seems to be the best solution,easy to do,easy to check the cutting and a step in front to get a more real GP
simulation..
The only point i m not sure is about track temperature,the last ones in do his lap could have any advantage with that?,,,So,i m not sure which could be the system to determine the start positions for qualify..
I remember at begining of year were some discussions looking for equality in the championship,,perhaps this could be a good chance to help a little that point and let the people who has less points in championship do his laps in the best conditions,,so simply start the qualify in the order of championship table.
See you all mates..

Samy

sirsmokealot · Post by **sirsmokealot** » 07 May 2003, 15:12

I am 110 % in for a solution like SAMYPHO have there , let the top positions start qualify , and make better track to "slower" drivers ...
THIS might prevent that M1 or DP is written on pole EVEN b4 qualify lol....
AND its going to make qualify much closer i think ...

I AM ALL IN FOR 1 lap qualify .... AS alx say it puts more pressure on the driver ... and u DONT cut .....

OR perhaps we schould only make this TO DIV1