RESULTS: Indianapolis

Ferry · Post by **Ferry** » 29 Jul 2006, 22:21

dutch power wrote:why not moving this one to privat then??

why moving it to private? scared to take some critics? And maybe yes iam to hard with my words, but please guys iam not trying to make you the bad guys. but iam only hoping that it will help you all to look better on a race replay. take a step further and try to make this league perfect. when thats not the goal, then you are doing something wrong.

dutch power · Post by **dutch power** » 29 Jul 2006, 23:49

LOL this should have been discussed privat anyway but i repleyd here.

Anyway i hope flow you would like to check out mine replay, i still dont have an answer on mine original question

I only counted 6 real cuts where i posible could gain time, and only one time i did gained time.

But you know i realized seeing replay back that i did go over withe line on "outside" entering the oval lol then i can image that i got those 170 seconds.,..... 10 seconds per aditional cut state the rules,.. so i did 17 cuts gaining time???

You know leave it im fine with it, see you back on france

that one will be mine.

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 30 Jul 2006, 00:14

To maybe explain things a bit, there were probations in the last few races that should have been given but were called off because of the backlog for the admins in reviewing the races and publish the official results. It was not deemed correct to enforce (for example) a 1 race probation for something that happened maybe 2 races before, so these were just dropped from the official reports because it would have been useless to report them. If that was a good decision or not is up to you to decide.

As for the chat example you give, I can't say much about it because I wasn't there when it happened (being a Euro race). What I can tell you though (assuming we're talking about the same thing) is that the penalty was actually jointly reported by the Euro supervisors (Klaaz and Drago) but after discussions with the other supervisors (Killa, Flow and me) and judging with how this was judged in the past, the penalty was deemed excessive for the infraction that happened (1 championship point for a single word, with no precedents) and it was agreed that a stern warning would be given to that driver instead. Again, if that was a good decision or not is up to you to decide.

Finally, I'll just say that because you don't see something happen does not mean there are no reason for it. There's an admin forum in here that was started in March to facilitate communication between supervisors (as email and IM were getting too complicated, especially when there are many things to be discussed at the same time). Very few people can see it and participate (supervisors + Killa + Dan + SteveB), but still there are 54 threads and 1233 posts in there (as I write this). There are a lot of things we're discussing to make this league fair and better but, unfortunately, we're only humans with real lives too so we must make compromises like everyone. If you have ideas or suggestions or anything, you're welcome to post it. If you've got problems with something we do, talk to your supervisor(s). If you have problems with your supervisor(s), talk to Killa or a supervisor from the other division. And don't wait for weeks/months to do it, please. If after all that, you don't agree with the administration in general after trying to discuss things, then remember about it when vote time comes for next season. That's pretty much all I can say... It's not like we're in this for the money. Well, if anyone is, I want my part of it too!

As a general note, the rules are there not as much to punish as to (hopefully) define the NAR standards for fair racing and make clear what is allowed and what is not. Everybody makes mistakes, supervisors included. We're mostly looking to make it so they are not repeated, not to bash anyone because they made one.

Hopefully, this longish post might have answered a few questions you might have...

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » 30 Jul 2006, 01:55

shees

if i see how many cut there were made.............
what the fuck people are complaining!!!!!!!GRRRR

really what a bunch of a loser

he knows who i am talking about

(he thinks he is the best)blah blah blah

Now he really shows me who he is

damz

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » 30 Jul 2006, 01:57

and btw a cut is a cut even when loss of time

i know that from fsr as wlel sorry guys
lol i am not the driver with infrigments now:)

So i can laugh from the outside!hahahaa

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 30 Jul 2006, 02:31

One word: RESPECT. Thank you.

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 30 Jul 2006, 02:46

Ferry wrote:haha what the fuck penalty fore cutting(...)its to easy to only put a penalty to a driver when you like it. Please this is stupid. I have seen very bad driving and also chatting in race. Al this no penalty no nothing. (...).

This is what i didnt apreaciate hearing...

Ferry, sorry if this morning (for me) i overeact on you comment. Like Bilbo said, alot is done to ensure that we try to be fair to all. I personaly spent between 3-4 hours after eatch race, just to make shure all are happy, like i said earlier.

Sorry again, but i hope you understand my frustration.

Abou the incident at lap 19, turn 1, it was discuss. Final resume was that Seb was on the inside, but was not clear he had complete advantage. You both decide to turn side by side, and Seb push more than you to get in front more in front of you. Both of you didnt let a chance to other, just hoping to get the position, with is ok. Seb close the door on you, and since he was not in advantage at begining of turn, he close door on you and contact and he penalized himsel by doing a spin. After review, we tought it was more a race incident. But check at replay, it was an hard shot to call. We had maybe around 6 or 7 post in admin only on that. We declare race incident the situation. I think you report it to Klaaz, and Klaaz stop supervising for back injury, he cant race also. We had the info, and we seem to forget to come back to driver who complaint to let them know our final conclusion, sorry.

Exemple in NA at USA. a driver whent straight tough T1 at full trottle, and cross in middle of 2 driver who was taking the corner safely. Lucky, no touch, but by the skin of ass. It was a dangerous behavior, but no contact, se we drop a public warning. No hit, no contact, but dangerous. We cant penalize on something that didnt happend, but we take time to mention its dangerous. He didnt receive a probation, (we race Canada and after we review USA, so probation was wird to give for france) He always manage to drive clean 99% of time. Next time, we will be harder on him. Alot of incident are same as that, but less dangerous. Alot of touch happend, but when a driver close door, its clean, and the driver behind seem to not apreciate an push him in his ass on straight, this is not fun, but nothing hapend, waht can we say...

About passing roadrunner, seem that euro didnt notice it, result are post, so nothing to do about it now. It also drivers responsability to help us to say if they saw or were victim of an unfair situation.

We must be sorry about posting USA result. Usualy we always advise driver in advance by posting a PM to him, so he know what is comming. Seem that we forgot with the USA resutl. We were late on replay watching, so we post direct to forum, withc seem to be a mistake. Sorry.

noob1234 · Post by **noob1234** » 30 Jul 2006, 07:35

I want to apologize on my behalf (and on the behalf of my team).
The only explanation I can offer is that I don't know Indianapolis that well and that my raceline (and cornering speed) where somewhat inconsistent.
But that was an explanation not an excuse.
Sorry guys, it will not happen again!

Ferry · Post by **Ferry** » 30 Jul 2006, 07:41

Flow wrote:[
Abou the incident at lap 19, turn 1, it was discuss. Final resume was that Seb was on the inside, but was not clear he had complete advantage. You both decide to turn side by side, and Seb push more than you to get in front more in front of you. Both of you didnt let a chance to other, just hoping to get the position, with is ok. Seb close the door on you, and since he was not in advantage at begining of turn, he close door on you and contact and he penalized himsel by doing a spin. After review, we tought it was more a race incident. But check at replay, it was an hard shot to call. We had maybe around 6 or 7 post in admin only on that. We declare race incident the situation. I think you report it to Klaaz, and Klaaz stop supervising for back injury, he cant race also. We had the info, and we seem to forget to come back to driver who complaint to let them know our final conclusion, sorry.

OK this was an good example, i dont want a penalty fore me ore fore Sebastian fore this one. You were totaly right about it that it was an race excident. but the thing is, when some one make an protest. admin always need to make an answere before the next race in public. And i think you know now what i mean, thats good and i leave it with it.

p.s. its not needed to say sorry over and over again, its to much fore me to handle

i think i have to say sorry fore my first words on my first post in here. that was indeed not the way to put things out. but sometimes the best way to make some pleople react. i think it happend. but again fore this i dont want to attack people about there work, i only hope to give some advise. maybe not the right way, but its a way.

meoPHOENIX · Post by **meoPHOENIX** » 30 Jul 2006, 07:46

don't worry ... I am not going to comment this in the details!

for me it looks like both have done mistakes in the past ... the racer ... and the supervisor/admin/management/whoever!

I hope for NAR that all are going to change this in the future ... and you should not wait to long with discussions ... they mostly get because of stupid reasons more worse!

even if it might be a big storm in a small drink of water ... clear things at the time they are allways makes you feel better and run with fun again ... or decide what you have to decide if you do not agree with it!

it was good to read this topic ... by what I heard off forum it was overdue!

I remember last season we had our hard post's after every race and things got cleared after every race ... I allways thought things would get out of control and all would leave ... but I learned that after those hard talks things where ok again.

it is pretty normal that things change by step into the future ... but step into the future does not mean to change everything at all... step into the future is meaning to take the good things from the past ... a NOW is because the past was!

I hope you guy's will find a good rythm again!

and bilbo if you want a RoC 2005 ... I would say let's do it in rF3 and origial game ... or w8 till after season maybe I am in a formula car then lol

... have a nice day! ... have fun! ... I DO !!!

meo

Ferry · Post by **Ferry** » 30 Jul 2006, 07:50

Patrick wrote:and btw a cut is a cut even when loss of time

i know that from fsr as wlel sorry guys
lol i am not the driver with infrigments now:)

So i can laugh from the outside!hahahaa

yes Pat i know you dont like me, thats not a problem at all. you also now what you have said i hope.

a cut is a cut yes indeed, and were does i say that i cant live with the penalty fore the cuts? maybe good reading helps a lot. but that seems a big problem fore you.

and about FSR can you remember what you said before starting the season??????? well i will help you. you said i am sure the champion on the end off the season iam the fastest driver and i beat all the drivers in it. i told you to be carefull with that. its good to motivate your self but dont think there are a bunch off crap drivers in it. And on what spot are you know? and on what spot you think you are after the last race? and switching from team yea thats something good you surely make friends with that. Iam one off them. i realy loved it that you goes to the most crap team off the year. you have realy no clue what the manager is doing with the money and you have no clue when you and iff you get some. but ahh well i think i already spend to much words about it. and i think its still the best fore you and me that whe never respond on our posts. but its up to you. i love it when you react on my posts, always a big laugh.

and p.s. yes you are the best on track in this league

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » 30 Jul 2006, 11:59

your really pathethic..........

what a loser you are................

you think your so good............

thats why nobody likes you

i have scored podiums in fsr

and now you tell me look where i am now

yeah right

thats why i get any offer from any team in fsr

can you do the same?

Nooooooooooooo

go and srew yourself i have had it with you

Ferry · Post by **Ferry** » 30 Jul 2006, 12:53

You realy have no eyes. you said in the beginning off the season that you would win the championchip. So .........

and yes saying that somebody is a loser is easy offcourse. And saying nobody likes me, ok maybe you think that but iam sure its fore sure not thrue. last year i was the most fair driver in FSR. and saying something about a desision is something i hope is aloud to do. When people hate me fore that thats fine. its up to them. And again i didnt say iam good. were does that stand? Yup you scored podiums in FSR and also i did. fore this moment more then you. And getting an offer from other teams is not that difficult, if you think you are the only one with that then you are crazy. And why do you think i do the same as you?? i realy dont want to be you. let me say it different iam very very happy that iam not you.

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 30 Jul 2006, 15:12

Ferry after reading back, yes your were more mad about contact than cut, and didnt realized it.

Yes we lack in posting back our comment on race incident. Thanks for the reminder, we will keep a good note of it. When we have 2 weeks between race, its more easy to be in time. But 2 race back to back weekend, is not an easy task, some delay, and some forgoten things.

Ruben Miranda · Post by **Ruben Miranda** » 30 Jul 2006, 16:05

Hello
A little off topic and maybe I should not get involved.
But I can not see or read this with out saying something.

One of many things I love about this league and the guys that are in it.
Is that we have always been able to say and talk about what is bothering us weather it is about a race or in our personal lives.
And we did not get comdemed because we where wrong (And I am not saying anyone is wrong) or becuase of a diffrent oppinuion.

It is not Cool or Inteligent in anyway shape or form to call somebody a loser. but that is my own personal oppinuion.

But I do beleave that in the forum rules that such personal grudges should be done by PM or EM. And should not blead on to the track ever.

And one more thing
You want respect of others you will not get it until you give it.
Respect is urned not taken or given.

Ruben Hitman Miranda

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 30 Jul 2006, 16:28

Exactly Ruben, well said m8, I've been in NAR since the F1 2002 days, and can't remember anything like this happening. I hope Ferry and Patrick can let their differences go away, and just have fun racing, thats what NAR is all about, isn't it?

The spirit of this league, is fun and fair racing, not who is fastest, or who is or is not a "cheater" Let's all just get along, and have some fun boys !!!

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 30 Jul 2006, 16:52

I can only second (and third and fourth?) the above three posts...

Ferry · Post by **Ferry** » 30 Jul 2006, 18:50

Flow, no problem man, i think i wasnt that good on shoosing the right words on that point. and i can understand that sometimes the things doesnt work out as the way it suposed to be. after all i hope you are happy en the rest off the people are not mad ore anything. etleast i am happy. because there were things said that needed to be said. so fore me is this topic closed, and iam sure the next time when i have a change to be on track with you guys iam there.

Hitman and Steve, you are also totaly right. but the things between Patrick and me never comes ok. the only thing is that i will never do anything against him on track, i hope the racing will always be fair. as far as i know its the same fore patrick. the only thing is always when whe came together off track its always getting in to an argument. i know why, he probaly thinks also. whe have our own reasons. and it will never be ok any more. there fore is to much happend in the past.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 30 Jul 2006, 18:58

Never say never m8, hehe

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 30 Jul 2006, 19:05

To Patrick and Ferry np, but you are both ask to keep those low argument somewere else than open to all of us. We feel uncompfortable with it, and also it is not tolerated here. You guys should use the PM (Private message or email) for those kind of stuff. If you guys have arm things to finish about FSR, please do it in the FSR forum.

NAR rule number 1 is respect. Making respect our first goal alow this free, no sponsor, no money involve and fun league to leave longer than alot of league. I hope overall you still both apreciate this league and are able to recognized that we all try our best. Please collaborate with no low comment and try to not entertain those kinds of comment also would be a good thing.

If some dont show respect between them and show it publicly, they may lost respect of other in the league. Enjoy both your end of season, and hopefully dont do anything on track that may reflect your personal conflict.

Pat and Ferry, have fun on track!

No Aids Racing

RESULTS: Indianapolis

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Re: RESULTS: Indianapolis

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