I'm really just posting here to see if I'm the only one with this problem.
The cars in the new mod seem to have larger braking distances than normal, and it almost feels as though the brakes are fading (even on the first lap). They aren't very responsive.
I've tried various brake balance and pressure settings but nothing has helped. I can still control the car, but unless I brake early the car either runs wide or has slide oversteer when I turn into the corner.
I've never had this problem in other mods so i'm just checking to see if anyone else is finding the brakes to be a bit odd in this new server edition. I've checked my pedals and they seem to be fine.
Braking in the MMG SE mod...
Re: Braking in the MMG SE mod...
On the first lap in particular (or after a "sand/grass delay"), your brakes won't be very efficient because they're not up to operating temperature yet. It's the same principle as for the tyres, there's a temperature range where they're most efficient and if you're not there, you'll notice.Firefly wrote:The cars in the new mod seem to have larger braking distances than normal, and it almost feels as though the brakes are fading (even on the first lap). They aren't very responsive.
My experience so far is that with similar brake pressure (90% or near) as in my F1C setups of last season, my braking points are pretty much at the same place once everything (tyres + brakes) has heated up. It pretty much takes a whole lap to get there though.
2010 NA div. Admin
Hi Firefly,
You are not alone with this. I ran several hours of motec runs last night experimenting. Try increasing your brake disc size if you have not already done so. Also, and you probably know this, how you set up the car to transfer load under braking has some to do with this due to the fundamental law of adhesion (assuming you may also be having some lock up issues). If you are not locking, and simply running long, a lot of what I am about to say below is not applicable.
Be careful when you are setting up your dampers as there is a lot of mis- information out there. Dampers will control the speed at which load transfers, but not ultimately the amount of weight. The weight is needed to increase the normal load on the tire which, in turn, increases the amount of grip it can generate...which can be used for increased braking efficiency. Note, this is not linear and the amount of grip that the tire can produce will actually decrease a bit as the loads get very-very high.
Furthermore, if you run too much bump at the front, the tires will see a very rapid increase load (faster than if you had a soft setting). This can cause, depending on the tire curve, overload in to threshold before the tire has a chance to react. Race cars, normally, are very over damped by conventional standards. And the stiffer dampers tend to help the car settle(respond) faster which is good...to a point. This is counter intuitive at first thought, and contradictory to what a lot of people think.
An analogy that a prof used in college was to think of pushing a 100 pound weight. If you push directly on it (no cushion) all force goes to the rock immediately. If you push against a thick, but soft, rubber mat (think of this like a damper) the rock will only see the force when the mat can no longer compress and you are again essentially leaning on the rock. As the mat increases in durameter, the rock will see force ramping up faster toward complete compression.
Follow?
Later
Mark
You are not alone with this. I ran several hours of motec runs last night experimenting. Try increasing your brake disc size if you have not already done so. Also, and you probably know this, how you set up the car to transfer load under braking has some to do with this due to the fundamental law of adhesion (assuming you may also be having some lock up issues). If you are not locking, and simply running long, a lot of what I am about to say below is not applicable.
Be careful when you are setting up your dampers as there is a lot of mis- information out there. Dampers will control the speed at which load transfers, but not ultimately the amount of weight. The weight is needed to increase the normal load on the tire which, in turn, increases the amount of grip it can generate...which can be used for increased braking efficiency. Note, this is not linear and the amount of grip that the tire can produce will actually decrease a bit as the loads get very-very high.
Furthermore, if you run too much bump at the front, the tires will see a very rapid increase load (faster than if you had a soft setting). This can cause, depending on the tire curve, overload in to threshold before the tire has a chance to react. Race cars, normally, are very over damped by conventional standards. And the stiffer dampers tend to help the car settle(respond) faster which is good...to a point. This is counter intuitive at first thought, and contradictory to what a lot of people think.
An analogy that a prof used in college was to think of pushing a 100 pound weight. If you push directly on it (no cushion) all force goes to the rock immediately. If you push against a thick, but soft, rubber mat (think of this like a damper) the rock will only see the force when the mat can no longer compress and you are again essentially leaning on the rock. As the mat increases in durameter, the rock will see force ramping up faster toward complete compression.
Follow?
Later
Mark
Last edited by Echoshill on 19 Mar 2008, 23:16, edited 2 times in total.
There is no limit to my inability and I am willing to prove it.
-
Coffeemachine
- Posts: 775
- Joined: 21 Oct 2006, 21:02
- Location: Luleå
- Contact:
care to set up my car mark? 
haha seriously i find that i have to brake slightly earlier this year, and that - as bilbo said - it takes time for the brakes to get warm... this together with that the tyres arnt up to temp will give us challanging first corners this year
haha seriously i find that i have to brake slightly earlier this year, and that - as bilbo said - it takes time for the brakes to get warm... this together with that the tyres arnt up to temp will give us challanging first corners this year
[12:19:47]Dropkick: somebody tried to mug me once
[12:19:59]Dropkick: but i was so drunk i did not understand
[12:19:59]Dropkick: but i was so drunk i did not understand
LOL - If only I could drive half as well as I blab....or 1/3 as well...heck, 1/8th would be ok.kaffemaskin wrote:care to set up my car mark?
haha seriously i find that i have to brake slightly earlier this year, and that - as bilbo said - it takes time for the brakes to get warm... this together with that the tyres arnt up to temp will give us challanging first corners this year
You would be surprised how little of what an engineer knows will directly apply to setting up a sim car. Between the compromises made in the physics engine and the fudging done by the modders, often times sim cars do not react very much at all like there real world counterparts. The biggest problem, IMHO, is in the tire models. As the tires are the key to a happy race car (car in general) the model has to be spot on. If not, all the suspension tweaking in the world will produce anomalous results.
Also, I would very much like to apologize for coming off so arrogant in the post above. No one asked, nor does anyone care what I do or how long I have done it. You guys are my friends and I am very sorry to have written in that manor. I will be editing the post a bit (shortly) so I do not look like such an arse.
Mark
There is no limit to my inability and I am willing to prove it.
These heat issues are something that were really never had to deal with at this level before. The funny thing is it reminds me of when Richard Hammond drove the Renault F1 car on top gear last season. He had a hard time going fast enough to keep heat in the tires and brakes. For anyone who didn't see it it's worth a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0O7gFycPho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0O7gFycPho
OH MY GOD That guy sounds like my exwife when I am driving.Did he have to be so vocal while driving the f1 car...LOL>..now that was funny.I am sure he had to change his shorts after that one.
carrera
carrera
Quote"Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl 'Will you marry me?' The girl said, 'NO!' And the guy lived happily ever after and rode motorcycles and went fishing and hunting and played golf a lot and drank beer .The end""
-
Flow
- Spam kingpin
- Posts: 5908
- Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 04:51
- Favorite team: Minardi
- Are you a spam bot?: No
- Location: Montreal, Quebec
No, no, i think it was instructive. For shure, in real life, but probably hard to aplly to a game like as you mentioned, but basis may apply. Im not good in english, but i didnt felt arogant. This is one of only few post that we had that are probably 'constructive' post about setting/physic, some other nar member could post those kind of post, but i think that majority (at least me) are not good at engeneering as you are. If you are worried about cause If not alot replied, dont worry, no post back, means aggreement.Echoshill wrote:Also, I would very much like to apologize for coming off so arrogant in the post above. No one asked, nor does anyone care what I do or how long I have done it. You guys are my friends and I am very sorry to have written in that manor. I will be editing the post a bit (shortly) so I do not look like such an arse.
Mark
NAR.F1 driver
