Top Gear Shooting

Coffeemachine · Post by **Coffeemachine** » 10 Jan 2007, 15:42

How about shooting cars in the air? i like it in the end when they use our swedish pride, the "carl gustaf anti tank gun"....aka GRG....quite a blast from those

this was awsome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaSV11NXlUw

klaaz · Post by **klaaz** » 10 Jan 2007, 16:32

mega funny

Coffeemachine · Post by **Coffeemachine** » 10 Jan 2007, 17:03

would be cooler if it was real tho

philmax · Post by **philmax** » 10 Jan 2007, 18:23

this man he 's a crazy man

Post by **DanTheMan** » 11 Jan 2007, 23:51

GRG isn't really much of a pride. It's heavy and ineffective against modern armour. Equally ineffective, but much more well-known is the "Pansarskott 86" weapon. Just like the GRG it features an 84 mm barrel, but it's fairly lightweight due to the use of composite materials. Abroad it is known as the "AT-4". It is being used by many armies around the world.

If you care at all about your ears you will not fire a GRG (or anything like it) without double ear-protectors.

Also, the description of how the missile works is pretty inaccurate (it's a regular shaped charge warhead, not some sort of fuel-tank-tracking-futuristic-thing).

/Daniel (who has fired both the GRG and AT-4)

Flow · Post by **Flow** » 12 Jan 2007, 00:19

DanArmyMan, thanks for the info, were you in militairy or just training?

Here in Canada we dont have mandatory army, only volunteer, but to do waht? To drive old jeep that give not more protection that a golf cart? to do war on old submarine that makes more death in practice seesion by linking and having alot of fire problem on board? To fly and old, old, old Helicopter that is the worst hellicopter in world so mutch they are old, that need more than multiple hours of reparation per minutes of flight?

Canada have at least an army and use for peace mission in war for friends and for after was reconstruction.

At least Canada have those great plane to estinguis fire in forest, but oups, it carry only water, no bomb on board. Here wath we all think about our old hellicopter...

I think that US and alot of country in Europe, they MUST do military, is it?

Coffeemachine · Post by **Coffeemachine** » 12 Jan 2007, 02:41

hehe danthearmyman

just curious, you didnt really fire a real p 86 did you? if you did, that is status! but my bets would be with the 9 mm "flump, the "lobb" weapon" or the 20mm with signal charge training ones.

I never got to fire the beautiful grg (only AKAN once lal sucks to be commander, you never get to fire anything) but the blast it makes is cool

but if you cant use a grg or p 86, what should you do then?

are there better ones out there? i was under the impression it wasnt
anyhow its just a matter of hiding under something heat isolated and shoot the enemy armour in the assss!!

flow over here it is still called "mandatory" but nowdays you can basicly say "no, i dont wanna" and they let you off the hook. but it was fun somedays, sitting ontop of a turret with a ipod in one ear and a never silent radio in another, and a map in your hand trying to figure out where you really are and compared to where the plutoon chief thinks you are so you can correct him and avoid being captured/killed so that you cant get access to all the candy you stored in every open area in your place (and outside the turret in cases and storage areas). but mostly you just "defend" something, meaning sitting still and waiting for a attack that never happenes. so mostly you sit on your ass with your gunner drinking coffee waiting for something to happen. and when the enemy heavy tanks comes (which rarely happens) your high command realize that you cant hurt a leopard 3 with a cv90s 40 mm gun and order you to retriet and fire artillery instead, and if you are lucky to actually see the enemy you still have to hit it with artillery and flee into the forest. or you can do as me and my friend did, hide in the forest behind a hill with pretended radio problems and tear off the helmets leaving our tanks,run up the hill and watch until the enemy passes only to shoot them in the back and try to stay alive. it takes about 10 shots in the ass to kill a leo according to the laser systems used in exersices

then all the lights on them go disco, woho. we managed to kill 2 then we ran into another plutoon leos and my friend died, i survived, and i still to this day would never confess that the laser systems maby where bugging at that moment, id say the leo gunner where clearly bad

and tho we hit him 16 times (2 full clips

) he was too crappy to hit us once (all he need with that 120mm gun) so i got away.
the capten wasnt that happy....hah

so, sometimes it actually can be fun! mostly its not

Post by **DanTheMan** » 13 Jan 2007, 23:14

I only fired the 9mm tracer version of the AT-4 in my regular military sevice training, but while preparing for my UN mission in Bosnia (BA01 + BA02, 1993-94) I actually got to fire a few "fullbumpa" AT-4's (concrete or something like that instead of the high explose shaped charge, but still a real 84mm projectile).

My platoon only got to fire one real AT-4, and that turned out to be a bit of a disappointment for the guy doing it. FMV (Försvarets MatrielVerk) was there to inspect the live firing (apparently it is quite rare), and they asked him to pre-set his sights before going into position (stupid!). We had just gotten new blue kevlar helmets, and they were hard to fasten properly, so they swung around a bit on your head. Apparently the guy's helmet knocked the rear sight down a few notches when he laid down in position, making his aim go way off. Instead of piercing a rather sturdy looking piece is steel 100m away, the missile hit the ground after only 70m or so, digging a nice little hole.

By the way, during the same fire exercise where I got to try the "fullbumpa" AT-4's, our turret gunner got to fire 1200 rounds in 3 hours using the 20mm AKAN in the PBV (301? can't remember, the old Hägglunds thing). That's aparently quite a lot, even when compared to how many rounds a turret gunner fires during his entire training (and this was during 3-4 hours).

Hmm, what more did I fire that night? A bunch of "mellanlys", 600 rounds of 5.56 with my AK5, a full box of 7.62 with a KSP58, a few 9mm rounds with a Glock (borrowed from a captain) and one round with a PSG90. We were designated as fire-team for the exercise, and were to support other platoons during their practice-runs. We had a silly amount of ammo in our reload station. I think I have a picture of it somewhere actually. While all the other groups had a few boxes of 5.56, 7.62, mellanlys, AT-4's, 20mm AKAN, we actually had crate-after-crate-after-crate full of it. We didn't even manage to finish everything off because you can only reload your AK5 clips so many times before your fingers start to ache.

The shaped charge in the AT-4 and GRG is good for knocking out regular armoured vehicles or concrete bunkers, but against a modern MBT they are no match. A modern MBT has active armour that deflects much of the energy created by the shaped charge. The energy left after going through the active surface is no match for the very thick hull, at least not in the front and in the sides.

To take on an MBT you need something like the Rb56 "Bill" or the famous TOW. Rb56 is a wire-guided-anti-tank-missile (WGATM) that has a range of up to 2200 meters, can be carried and deployed by 2 soldiers and strikes the tank from above where the armour typically is weaker.

Flow, I did 10 months of regular "mandatory" military training as an arctic ranger (at K4 in Arvidsjaur). I sort of liked the military life, so when Sweden decided to send troops to Bosnia for a peace-keeping UN mission I applied and got in. I spent a year down there.

/Daniel

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 14 Jan 2007, 00:14

hm, let's see, i have shot a 12 guage shotgun < many times, lol > .22 cal rifles for squirrel hunting, my dad has a 22-250 varmint rifle with a Leuopold Vari X 3 Scope on it, have fired it a few times, a .30 cal carbine rifle, a few 30-06 rifles. My shotgun has not been out of the case for probably 9 or 10 years as i kinda lost interest in turkey hunting, but may get back into it some day

carrera · Post by **carrera** » 14 Jan 2007, 15:59

Hmmmmmm.
After hearing Dan and Kaffemaskin talk about the military.I have come to the conclusion that my life is pretty boring..hahahaha...Yep shot a few hunting rifles...own a couple...but no comparison to the real mccoy.As Flow said."Our jeeps have about as much armor as a golf cart.".LOL....yep and our submarines have screen doors as well.I don't even want to know how old the guns are that the military uses.I guess I'l just have to stick to the virtual world.Thats as close as I can get.
carrera

klaaz · Post by **klaaz** » 14 Jan 2007, 16:20

Make RACE, not war........dont have to be boring

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 14 Jan 2007, 17:15

lol klaaz, wouldn't it be nice if everyone settled their differences on the track?

Coffeemachine · Post by **Coffeemachine** » 14 Jan 2007, 20:26

dan i suspected you did more than just a mandatory gb education

where you the ones that got fired at at bosnia, i also heard stories (we had a lutenent from that had been to bosnia) about the psk plutoon having to remain in a "hot" town for like a night under constant threat of being fired upon.

our groups grg shooters also had the oppertunity to fire some GRG in tome, we where fairly close the blast shock wave from those things where insane

ive also heard that 1 out of 1000 p87 explodes when firing them, or what the term is (lol have forgotten so much), that was oficially the reason none of us got to fire the real thing. But i recon we burned around 200 000 sek ( 20 000 euro roughly) in our shooting week with the cv90s

haha, the armour piercing 40 mm rounds with 1200m/s velosity makes a pretty nice blast too

Post by **DanTheMan** » 14 Jan 2007, 22:28

kaffemaskin, I wasn't a GB, I was a shortwave radio operator (telegrafist), that's why I did 10 months. .--- .- --. -.- .- -. -- --- .-. ... .

We got fired upon a few times, yes. Both small arms, artillery and anti tank weapons. I spent a very very long night in a small town called Vares (not far from Sarajevo), guarding a school full of refugees when the town had just fallen to the Croats (I think). It was pretty intense. At one time we even fired a warning shot with the 20mm AKAN in our PBV to get the looting under control.

One of the reasons the P-skott 86 isn't fired very often is that if the fins of the missile deploys before it has left the barrel you risk serious injury (or death) to the guy holding the weapon.

My only regret is that I never got to try the AG-90 (.50 cal / 12.7mm). Aparently it's pretty awesome. Only the EOD teams had it for dealing with mines from afar, and since the EOD teams were all stationed at the HQ (where we rarely went) I never got close to trying one out.

/-.. .- -. .. . .-..

Coffeemachine · Post by **Coffeemachine** » 15 Jan 2007, 02:30

ok thats the night ive heard of, must have been intense truely!