Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

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Dan Rasmusson
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Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Dan Rasmusson »

Hello all,

1. I and hopefully a few others think that we should alter/change the rules regarding track-cutting to either the 4 tyre on track system or to no longer consider curbs as being part of the track. Obviously there maybe should be a vote for both the leagues in case we disagree. What do you think?


2. Pascal Kreischer suggested to me on MSN that we should do Spa in the rain and I personally like it. There is a track already made for this and we could use it if we wanted to. What do you think?
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by carrera »

Yo DAn,
Number one.The real F! drivers put 2 wheels over the curbs so it should be allowed because we are trying to simulate F1 the best way we can.The rules of NAR state that repeated offense of the cutting rule results in a penalty.That means that if you do it consisitently you should get a penalty.If you do it several times by outbraking yourself or diving into the corner to early then you should not get a penalty.We do not all have the time to go over replays.It takes a while.We govern ourselves basically and trust the gentlemens rule of behaving.

Number 2.
The reason why we don't do races in the rain is because of the Framerate hit.Not everyone is running new machinery and it may chop while driving with spray from many cars on the starting line.I run a nvidia maxcore 260 so I don't have any problems whatsoever.Not everone has power to run rain races unfortunately.
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Flow »

Rain is not a bad idea, but we are having problem to have 2-3 drivers that cross the finish line, imagine if you put rain... combine with bad fps and lag, this may take out the little fun (fun that some lost).
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Bilbo »

#1) The decision to switch to 2-wheels-on-track a few years ago was made after much discussions with the goal of attracting more drivers. While it is only one of many decisions that were made to that end, there's no doubt that we are attracting more new drivers to the league these days than ever before. In the past, there were less people quitting but there were basically no one joining during a season either so the net result was negative. There is more quitting today but there is also a more constant interest from new drivers so, while it's not all positive, it's still a net improvement. As Carrera mentioned, it's also closer to the real thing, despite some people actually complaining that it's not as lax as real F1 (remember Schumy passing someone by totally going off track for the complete pass in Austria a few years back or Schumy (who else) consistently cutting the pit chicane (the one with the "wall of champions" on the exit) at Montreal year after year).

#2) As Flow mentioned, that issue is mostly for technical reasons. You'd be surprised to know that many here don't have very powerful PCs with the latest generation of video cards. For example, there are drivers running GeForce 6 family video cards, among others. That's why SteveB's tracks are very welcome as a best (and always improving) of both worlds between looks and performance. We like our long-time drivers enough in NAR to not do economic discrimination against them as long as it's practically possible.

Finally, that kind of suggestion should be made (and agreed on) BEFORE people start practicing for a track so there was basically no hope from the start for change in Belgium without VERY compelling reasons.
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Dan Rasmusson »

Bilbo wrote:#1) The decision to switch to 2-wheels-on-track a few years ago was made after much discussions with the goal of attracting more drivers. While it is only one of many decisions that were made to that end, there's no doubt that we are attracting more new drivers to the league these days than ever before. In the past, there were less people quitting but there were basically no one joining during a season either so the net result was negative. There is more quitting today but there is also a more constant interest from new drivers so, while it's not all positive, it's still a net improvement. As Carrera mentioned, it's also closer to the real thing, despite some people actually complaining that it's not as lax as real F1 (remember Schumy passing someone by totally going off track for the complete pass in Austria a few years back or Schumy (who else) consistently cutting the pit chicane (the one with the "wall of champions" on the exit) at Montreal year after year).

#2) As Flow mentioned, that issue is mostly for technical reasons. You'd be surprised to know that many here don't have very powerful PCs with the latest generation of video cards. For example, there are drivers running GeForce 6 family video cards, among others. That's why SteveB's tracks are very welcome as a best (and always improving) of both worlds between looks and performance. We like our long-time drivers enough in NAR to not do economic discrimination against them as long as it's practically possible.

Finally, that kind of suggestion should be made (and agreed on) BEFORE people start practicing for a track so there was basically no hope from the start for change in Belgium without VERY compelling reasons.
1. I completely agree with Carrerra about allowing two wheels to be on the curbs, however what I disagree with is that it's the two outside wheels that are on the curbs and the other two wheels in the grass like in Hungary. In Monaco Kimi and Massa was told to watch it when they had 2 tyres on curbs and 2 on the inside of a turn. Fisi even got some of his qualy laps DQed. to sum it up:
2 wheels on curbs + 2 wheels on track= Perfect!
2 wheels on curbs + 2 wheels outside track such in grass or asfalt. = track cut
Is what I would like to create.
The reason why more people are joining the Euro /NA league was because on some tracks we used official circuits so people could drive with us without missmatches or getting connection lost. That+ the fact that people were recruiting people to join when someone new joined in our server. (In amongst me who recruited NatxoCC who in turn invited his brother Kalimero to drive in this league and they are very fun to drive with.)


2. If that's such a big problem in the NA league you don't have to use it. I've spoken with this about Fred and Pascal already and if the rain is such a big problem you can always lower graphics a little. The rain race was originally Pascal's idea and it seems to have gotten good feedback in the EURO league.
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Jackson »

2.

well, the rain track looks really good and it makes super much fun to drive on it....the bumps are a bit high so you loosing much speed on the long straight but this isnt a big deal to reduce them (so its possible to drive higher wings and a little bit easier)
i know its hard to drive, and that its cquite challenging but hey we are NAR :) 8)

last year euro guys wanted the monza race to be a rain race but it was a bit too late :)

when not spa then maybe monza
i dont know how you handled it in the f1c century ;)
but i think many of us would race a rainrace.....a simple vote would do it easy (i dont have rights to do one so an admin could do it)

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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Fred »

Firstly, I don't know how much more I will be racing this year since I'm moving to another city in some weeks, so I'm not gonna push for a decision that I don't know how much it will affect me. But I can give my view on it.

IF we want the real rules in F1, we should definitely change rules. The kerb in real life is NOT part of the track. Therefore the asphalt inside the white lines counts as the track, and nothing else. Therefore, two wheels on the kerb and two wheels on the grass is indeed a cut, while two wheels on the asphalt and two on the kerb is fully ok.

About the rain race, an easy way to solve it is to ask people if they're computers can handle a rainy race or not, and Belgium isn't the last chance to race in the wet, so there's no rush.

That's my view :)
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Bilbo »

#1) You are right about the wording of the real F1 rule, the track is between the lines and curbs are not part of it. However, the FIA SO does not enforce that rule that they have to issue specific warnings for the odd occasion when they do decide to enforce it (the Monaco example). I believe our current rules are pretty close to what is generally "de facto" accepted by everyone IRL (it's not uncommon for real F1 drivers to put a wheel or two in the grass, when was the last time the FIA did anything about it? That's not even counting all the places where the whole car is deep in a runoff area at the exit of turns, as in Germany). I fail to see the problem with our rule, especially with everyone being subject to it. It's all arbitrary but I really don't see how your arbitrary rule is much better than our current arbitrary rule...

#2) The rules call for Sunny weather at all tracks. Given that changing this rule could lead to the direct exclusion of some drivers, I personally would require a unanimous vote from all current drivers before changing it mid-season. Remember that the rules are the "contract" between the drivers and the league so changes to them are not to be made lightly unless there is a very good reason. Assuming that a vote is made about the rain, then who/what decides which track to run in the rain (or not) ? For reference, we're running 2007 cars on (mostly) 2007 versions of the tracks from the 2009 schedule (i.e. Singapore, Abu Dhabi, Suzuka, etc. were not raced in 2007).

Anyways, it would be nice if the other admins could chime in but as I previsouly mentioned, change is out of question for Belgium at this time (this should have been discussed 3-4 weeks ago) as almost half of the practice time is spent already.
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Flow »

Bilbo wrote:Anyways, it would be nice if the other admins could chime in.
I second what Bilbo post, as an past admin.

Dont forget that when summer and vacantion is getting all of us, lack of interest and lack of driver on track, more skin outside than on track :mrgreen: this bring up those mid-season crisis discussion about our league/rules and management.

Suggestion here are not bad idea, but since i admin and know played often the one that was putting the weirdest suggestion to other admin, we have put so mutch effort on finding all good and bad on what was rule, and what could be done better. They is always place for improvement, but up to now, NAR actual rules are making us having alot of fun, and this is for those that race only for fun, and those that race on a too mutch serious way, its a good balance. Also, the things is that how rules are about cutting are taking off the admin hours of review after race, and trust me, i know what i mean, but they still need to review and discuss about race situation, with less time.

If Euro or NA want to race a full race on sunday night and after the race, launch a 25-50% leght race with rain just for the fun of it and off official NAR record, why not do it? You have all drivers attention, and it could only take 20-40 minutes of extra time. After that you will be more in position to evaluate the result and the interest of doing it.
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Coffeemachine »

yeah lets just put up a vote for us euro, half distance and rain? wold be really funny, as for the spray its very basic and i dont think it will hit the framrates too much. if it does, ill be the first to know hehe. time to buy a new computer...
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by philmax »

why changes in middle of season ? for what? :x
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Fred »

philmax wrote:why changes in middle of season ? for what? :x
No changes Phil, only suggestions :wink: We're just checking if people are in for a rainy race sometime this season.
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Flow »

Not realy a change, since few wanted rain, i just suggest to race a normal race and after do the same race on 50% distance under rain, just for the fun, off official record.

On a specific sunday race night :
1st : 100% race as usual for NAR championship
few minutes after NAR race : 50% race under rain off championship (only for fun)
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by SteveB »

Well first of all I have yet to see an F1 race that the drivers don't use the curbs.
There are some tracks that if they don't use the curbs thier lap times would be a lot slower.

As for running in the rain I am against it.
rFactors game engine doesn't even support this type of weather (animation), it is all simulated with textures and forcing the game to do something it wasn't designed to do and that is why it sucks the FPS out of slower PC's.
With the tracks we are using there is anywhere from 250 to 500 textures being used (depending on how objects were mapped) with wet weather tracks that number can go much higher.
I have a pretty good PC (new vid card needed) and my FPS is aweful when I tested wet tracks (offline).
Excluding ANY driver from a wet race because his PC can't handle it is wrong IMO.

I don't see anything wrong with the 2 wheel on track rule.
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Steve »

It's bad enough when you only have 5 or 6 drivers finishing a race in dry conditions, just think how bad it would be in the rain!! haha
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by SteveB »

I agree Steve.
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by Ruben Miranda »

Hello
Well the two wheel rule has worked great for all these years.
So I fail to see why there is a need to change it.
Specifically in mid season.
If there is a issue with a rule what ever it may be it should only be addressed during the off season.
Not sure but not even the FIA changes rules in mid season dam they go out of there way to tell the teams and drivers that in 2011 or what ever that something is changing.

For me I am not sure we need to re event the wheel when all has been great all this time.

As for the rain well it could be fun but the wet tracks I have seen just do not look that great and they do suck the FPS so the best way to do this is in a fun event. MHO
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Re: Rule change suggestion / Spa Suggestion

Post by philmax »

FredN wrote:
philmax wrote:why changes in middle of season ? for what? :x
No changes Phil, only suggestions :wink: We're just checking if people are in for a rainy race sometime this season.
ok but for me its better without rain :mrgreen: or like said flow after official race for 50% or less a real race
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